More light novels, less 4-komas/KEY for KyoAni
At least that's the knee-jerk conclusion I came to after completing a thoroughly immersing Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody (Haruhi 2). Not my full sentiments but they underscore some KEY reasons (pun intended) why the last KyoAni production I enjoyed was Kanon (back in 2006).
KyoAni has helmed these productions since Kanon. Clannad, Clannad After Story, Lucky Star, Munto and K-On!. It took me one year after Clannad ended to complete the series (forcibly I may add) and I discontinued AS after Mei goodness in ep 3. The best thing about the franchise to date was the Alternate retelling of Tomoyo's tale in ep 24. I blame Clannad's failure to engage on the source material. Despite KyoAni's polished delivery of endearing characters and comic moments, the Clannad tale just felt too filmsy and diffused to carry the supposedly poignant moments. Clannad was cute, moetastic and funny at times but overall a rather forgettable experience.
Lucky Star and K-on! suffered from the one and same problem - the lack of a driven plot.
"What driven plot? These are based on 4komas and mainly slice of life!".
I agreed and so the problems lies not with KyoAni but me. This tanuki like his healthy dose of KyoAni moe but he takes it as an supplement, never the main course. All these cutesy stuff is meant to enhance the tale but should not become the tale ONLY. Note that I enjoy slice of life. And it baffled me for a while why I had enjoyed Aria and Oinarisama but not Lucky Star. Examining further the reasons, I realised I like
1) Aria because it carried a profound appreciation of life with thought-provoking imageries/dialogue.
2) Oinarisama because it carried a message of unquenchable hope and optimism in the imperfections of life.
Lucky Star was mostly idiosyncratic cute for me and a few moments when I went, "Ah, I did that too...". I'm getting the same vibes from K-On although enjoy I'm enjoying the bishoujos a lot more - in a way I couldn't go with Lucky Star. Still, it's a looong stretch from the meaningful way Aria and Oinarisama can be enjoyed.
Munto. I gave up after 3 eps because the dialogue was just. too. darn. annoying. This was a rare case where the flawless KyoAni EQ floundered. A typical conversation in Munto is such -
Munto: "I need your strength. Come with me."
Yumemi:" Huh? What?"
Munto: "I need your strength. Come with me."
Yumemi:"Stop appearing in my bedroom! What do you want?"
Munto: "I need your strength. Come with me."
Yumemi:"Alright, if I hear you out, would you leave?"
Munto: "I need your strength. Come with me."
Yumemi:"Could you elaborate?"
Munto: "I need your strength. Come with me...Arrggh I'm out of powaaaaa...." *disappears*
Yumemi:"WTF...."
In contrast, I enjoyed Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody because there is a strong sense of direction in plot/character development and that KyoAni is very intentionally driving it. So you hang onto every word, unpick every conservation to see how loaded the statement is and ponder if the inconsistencies are part of the plot. Just one ep of Haruhi 2 and I'm inflamed with more theories on Haruhi's powers, Kyon's role, Mkuru's connections with her future self and the whole time travel conundrum (with specific thoughts on when did Yuki lose her glasses - After the fight with Ryoko or synchonisation in this ep?). That's what makes for interesting storytelling.
It looks like it'd take Haruhi 2 before KyoAni returns to be the darling of my 2D world again. Oh and while they're at that, could they plan for Fullmetal Panic 3 too?
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May 31st, 2009 - 03:49
Hmm… seems I’m the opposite in this regard. I tend to feel bogged down when an anime is trying to slam you repeatedly with some life message. I don’t really care, at this point I’ve pretty much formed my own opinions about much of these things. I watch anime to be entertained and making me laugh is a damn good way to entertain me and that’s what Lucky Star managed on quite a few counts.
Personally, I liked Clannad a lot more than I liked Kanon. I had quite a few concerns with Clannad After Story, but overall enjoyed it. I do agree about Munto, though. I managed to make it to the end, but it was really probably the biggest flop I’ve seen KyoAni manage.
I’m curious, with what you said about loving all the uncertainty and mystery, did you enjoy shows like Code Geass and Xam’d? And more recently, Eden of the East?
I suppose it just depends on what you’re looking for in anime. If you want something meaningful, I’m not sure there are many anime that can fill that niche. If you enjoy crazy theories and tons of mystery, there are others out there besides Haruhi :p For me, fun and interesting characters is all I really need to be entertained.
May 31st, 2009 - 07:10
Well, this is the part where I take umbrage at the fact that the opinion on CLANNAD ~ After Story seems to have been made only because of the first 8 episodes.
UNFORTUNATELY Stripey, After Story actually STARTS at episode 9. The first few episodes dealt with the side characters not featured during the first season. The REAL meat of CLANNAD/CLANNAD AS starts post episode 9. Please watch the whole thing before actually making all-encompassing statements, mein liebchen.
I’d like to rant, but really, I’d just let Jason explain for me:
http://blogsuki.com/archives/2009/04/03/2283/
May 31st, 2009 - 07:18
Because, clearly, we’re missing a few points here with regards to AFTER STORY. Like, oh, Tomoya and Nagisa getting married and having a daughter. The Town HATING (at least one interpretation people go by) on Tomoya by throwing the guy’s life into the dirt literally and figuratively, and a possible chance at a miracle.
Excuse me? “Clannad was cute, moetastic and funny at times but overall a rather forgettable experience”? Unfortunately most of the moe ENDED ONCE EVERYONE GRADUATED. Then Tomoya and Nagisa’s life happened, Stripey.
Please, just watch episode 9 onwards.
May 31st, 2009 - 10:22
I have to second Myssa’s opinion on Clannad AS. It really shines as soon as all the characters enter adulthood (aka after high school). Ep 18 of Clannad AS is easily my favorite episode out of all the Key-based anime due to its excellent directing and emotional impact.
May 31st, 2009 - 10:54
Nazarielle:
May 31st, 2009 - 11:02
I second those opinions on After Story. It IS a real story-driven anime post episode 9.
About Clannad only, if you think about it alone, it wasn’t really a great story, but if you think about it as a setup for AS it is a great anime.
May 31st, 2009 - 11:33
CLANNAD S1 was a lovecom with harem-ish antics, that’s very much a given, with separate ‘arcs’ for a particular girl, all the while highlighting the subtle (and MAN was it subtle, as there was little to no Public Displays of Affection shown) development in Tomoya and Nagisa’s relationship.
The thing is, the REAL CLANNAD (and game players will agree) only begins WITH After Story (which in the anime ONLY BEGINS AT EPISODE 9). There is no ifs, buts, whys or wherefores about it. Season 1 was pure SETUP for After Story.
May 31st, 2009 - 19:42
It’s heartening to know that AS didn’t go down Clannad’s path and the initial eps had been very misleading indeed. With your assurances, it looks like I would be giving AS a shot after all since I had wanted SO much to like Clannad.
That said, I’ve always been of the opinion that any series needs to be able to stand on its own. Clannad – a full 2 cour series – cannot be viewed purely as ’setup’ for AS feels. It needs to be held accountable as a production. My beef with Clannad is not so much the unresolved plots threads since I understood it was not complete but the stories themselves – smattering of random with much of the emotional bits feeling coerced. KyoAni did brilliantly to leverage on character charm to make the best of rather forced stories. But ultimately the stories in Clannad 1 just came across as being flat. I sincerely hope this point of view would change once I complete AS.
June 1st, 2009 - 05:09
Couldn’t have put it better Myssa Rei
Although we could’ve done without the spoilers. Ya Stripey you should watch AS its anything but forgettable, poignant and down to earth. Enough of that moe crap, anime should go back to being a fun and story-driven medium. Not some way of pandering to as many fans interests as possible (fetishes). Oh plus Mai Nakahara in a leading role…how can you miss that!
June 1st, 2009 - 05:18
Let me rephrase lol. Its anything but forgettable. Its poignant and down to earth.
There, cheers
June 1st, 2009 - 10:20
Hmmm, I actually thought Clannad was the best anime adaption of a KEY story. Kanon was good, but Clannad actually seemed more memorable to me. I found each character arc engaging and well paced. Even without After Story, I think Clannad stood quite well on its own.
I have not yet seen After Story so I can’t say anything about it.
June 1st, 2009 - 13:14
Haha, lot of people agreeing with me Stripey. That’s rare, so do take note of it.
And, I’d think that Jason Miao’s post on CLANNAD ~After Story which I linked to already speaks volume on how good After Story is.
June 1st, 2009 - 17:02
Meh, I thought After Story was a C- series. The ending was out of place, giving us a magical happy ending in a series that was grounded on bitter realism. The pacing was too disconnected, with too many time leaps. (I recall watching one episode where there were three time leaps all within a 20 minute span… *sigh…*) And the drama was mostly manufactured, especially because of these numerous time leaps that made it seem almost like KyoAni was somehow commanding you to cry at these moments because the characters are crying too. (Which they do – profusely)
June 1st, 2009 - 17:38
Samu-kun: That’s the thing though. KyoAni was working with what is primarily a Jun Maeda-based work, meaning you’re practically forced to emote. Profusely. Inevitably your mileage WILL vary, especially if you missed all the clues that explain the ending IN-SERIES. Heck, it took many of us (game players) a full thread to explain everything, and point out all those subtle cues (even from the first season!).
Now, the big question is, will Stripey accept that the series ends at Episode 19-ish, or that the ending in episode 24 actually fits ALL THE SUBTLE CUES ESTABLISHED IN THE SERIES BEFOREHAND (yes, darn it, they’re there, just overwhelmed by the moe) ? Game players lean toward the Episode 24 end, though anime watchers might just be happy with the pseudo-end of episode 18.
Also, it’s important for Stripey to ask himself before he fully immerses himself into After Story: is he expecting a semi-realistic story, or a story set in a Magical Realistic setting in the vein of KANON, where miracles DO happen?
June 1st, 2009 - 17:42
Because, frankly, in a world where the astral projections of comatose girls, cats can become people, and THE TOWN can literally make a plaything of a person’s life, in the vein of a very VERY capricious Genius Loci… Then, the setting of CLANNAD is definitely not a mundane, non-magical place.
June 2nd, 2009 - 00:38
As for the blog thread title…. though I enjoyed *parts* of Lucky*Star (the stuff actually derived from the 4-koma rather than the “Kyo-Ani Product Placement Ads”) and K-on! is sweet/charming (though ultimately falls into a sort of Manabi Straight limbo of forgotten-by-the-fans-next-year)…..
really Kyo-Ani should stick to the light novels — it would have been quite interesting to see them try Toradora! or Spice&Wolf. I’d say they should return to ‘eroge’ adaptations except that I think they pretty well knocked the concept out of the park with all their Key adaptations.
June 2nd, 2009 - 01:53
Maybe what you enjoy isn’t so much slice-of-life per se, as “iyashikei” series. Since you emphasized preferring these shows that have deeper ideas embedded within them, that would make sense.
I’m a fan of all types of slice-of-life, which ranges from stuff like Aria and Oinarisama to Lucky Star and Minami-ke, and even the occasional Kamichu or Ichigo Mashimaro. I can definitely understand, though, how some people prefer their slice-of-life to still have a bit more substance to it, rather than just being pure fluff.
June 2nd, 2009 - 08:46
Actually, given Stripey’s leanings towards slice of life, I was wondering just why Natsu no Sora wasn’t even mentioned. It’s a charming show with a likeable (at least to me) lead, which susprisingly (mine especially) goes serious near the end, so it’s not purely ‘fluff’.
Oh, and Stripey, if and when you finally get to After Story 18, for Haruhi’s sake stop at around 19 or 20, take a break, then remember this fact before continuing: this is a Jun Maeda work. This is a story in the Magical Realism genre.
Then as a game player, I can point out the clues that appeared in-series (the anime) that lead to Episode 24. Though, Episode 25 does explain well too…
June 5th, 2009 - 00:32
Thanks all for your assurances/thoughts/counterpoints, especially Myssa Rei who took great pains to explain at length the strengths of AS. I will surely be giving AS a shot. I’ve read bits of Jason’s points (merely scanned through since I didn’t want to be spoilt), Samu-kun’s entry on Clannad. Both has points I think I would be able to identify with. Ultimately, I have no issues with magical alternate world, endings as long as the story flows coherently and the plot makes good sense within its universe. That brings me to a point about Clannad 1. Even in Clannad 1, I can see all the references to the alternate world. But as I had mentioned, it’s not the non-closure that disturbed me but the stories themselves which I felt had little impact or coherence on the overall tale. Kotomi and Fuuko arcs were bland at best. Tomoyo and Kyou got shafted. I wasn’t very impressed with Nagisa’s final arc too. It’s probably just me having too high expectations, looking for convergent threads with poignant stories. I hope AS sits better with me.
June 5th, 2009 - 00:40
Oh, and Stripey… Nagisa’s story actually starts with After Story. Yes, it’s that way in the game as well. ^^; As for all the other arcs… Let’s just say that each contributes to a greater understanding on how the CLANNAD world works, like, oh, Kotomi’s Parallel World theory. To say more would verge on major spoilers though.
And remember this: the theme of CLANNAD is Family. Now, guess whose paths in the game DIDN’T focus on Family (and instead on Romance)? That’s right, Tomoyo and Kyou’s.
June 5th, 2009 - 09:15
You once asked me what I liked so much about Lucky Star and I think Dav said it best:
June 7th, 2009 - 23:41
Myssa Rei : That’s really unfortunate since Tomoyo and Kyou are the fav chars in Clannad. That’s surely contributed to my diminished enjoyment of the series. At least they’re making up with Tomoyo and Kyou centric OVAs.
Zyl: Actually if you could stomach Kanon, AIR and Clannad shouldn’t be too hard. At this point I still wouldn’t recommend Clannad yet but AIR is worth a peek if not for the gorgeous animation.
June 13th, 2009 - 06:35
K-On! is having to grow on me… but the series has a lot of ‘heart’ if it is a bit milder in the comedy. I’d class it more akin to Manabi Straight in execution (I *love* the 4koma L*S and that part of the series that was true to it… just will be eternally smarting a bit at some of the adaptation choices in cross-commercialization).
July 27th, 2009 - 03:29
Hey bro, long time no see. Looks like you’ve caught up on the KyoAni stuff I actually watched.
Let’s catch up on it sometime!
July 27th, 2009 - 23:58
vexx: I REALLY need to finish K-On. Or at least catch the appearance of the lolicious twin tail character.
greyscalefuzz: My good brother! It’s been a while! Yeah the gang should catch up some time. Maybe even a round of CS if our cholesterol-laden heart still can take the thrill