J.C. Staff's Original Sins?
Does J.C. Staff commit sins of anime-original injustice? Myssa Rei contented that 'J.C. Staff seems to stumble when they have to make things on the fly'. Haesslich pointed to 'levels of failure' in ZnT 2 & 3 as well as parts of Shana 2; J.C. Staff original = t3h suck?
I'm not really able to comment meaningfully on the above hypothesis with reference to ToraDora! or Shana2 because I haven't seen the manga or light novels respectively and I didn't even watch ZnT 2 or 3. But two thoughts do come to mind.
First, are we fair to consider J.C. Staff to be monolithic? Stripey's post on the series composition process strongly suggests that animation studio credit may not be the sole or even most important determinant in the quality and enjoyment level of an anime series. Is it possible to isolate a sub-studio-level centre of gravity that is the cause of much woe and teeth-gashing, like a specific individual or group that does areas mostly like to touch on 'original' parts such as script writers, screenplay writers, story boarders, directors?
Secondly, there could be exceptions that prove the rule but it also suggests that J.C. Staff orginal does not always equal suck. I really enjoyed Episode 19: One Spring Night in Azumanga Daioh. Having checked my four volumes of the Azumanga manga, I'm pretty sure most of the material in this episode is anime-original. And it was, for me, the most touching episode; it proceeded on two parallel tracks that charts the students' and teachers' sakura flower viewing, it was a lovely glimpse into the teachers' world.
There was an intriguing tension between how Nyamo, in particular, was an adult figure to the students and yet she herself didn't feel fully adult in comparison to her peer, Eiko, who had a better paying job and/or who had 'gotten herself a man' (as Yukari put it with her usual tact and finesse), neither was she really recognized as actually being fully 'adult' by her mother.
I wouldn't have thought that these themes could be best explored in the context of Azumanga's world. But it fit perfectly in the episode, contrasting with Chiyo and Kagura's conversation about their dreams for the future, as well as the overall direction of the series which was moving towards graduation and beyond the here.
But, outside this single dissonant case, has J.C. Staff, in general, snatched the mark of original sin from GONZO?
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October 22nd, 2008 - 22:20
JC Staff sucks. Gonzo sucks.
I think anime studios who are riding on their laurels from 10 years ago need to get with the program. Tits & ass are no longer the “selling point” like it maybe was back in the day.
Sure there’s perverts & lolicons who will still buy it for that, but the majority of the audience is like “wow wtf is this shit.” I can attest to this based on niconico video comments from the Japanese audience.
October 22nd, 2008 - 22:28
I really liked J.C. Staff back in the old days.
You know, the time when they made the Honey & Clover anime.
That anime is a masterpiece and it became one of my favorite animes.
And at the same time, J.C. Staff became one of my favorite animation studios (nothing can top KyoAni).
But now..they’re ‘ok’..
Can’t say anything more than that.
October 23rd, 2008 - 00:10
I wouldn’t hit J.C. Staff too harshly since they did produce Nodame Cantabile (which I thought was top-notch) and Kimikiss – Pure Rouge which wasn’t bad either. Their action titles like Shana and Index are a bit more suspect though.
Even then, I’d put the blame more on who they put in the director’s chair more than anything else. Good directors like Shinbo and Kasai have turned out consistently high quality titles while those who are terrible (like that guy who directed Fate/Stay Night) continue to turn out subpar product.
October 23rd, 2008 - 00:18
I shudder when someone thing Honey & Clover anime is old. Old JC Staff stuff is like, Utena or Slayers. And even then that’s 1996-old and not 1986-old, which is when JC Staff started.
Guys, each project is different. JC Staff is not at all like Gonzo as they’re a traditional studio and mostly are just hired to do whatever. The quality of work they do depends on time and money they have to spend on the stuff, and how good are the creators of the anime they work with.
There’s also the fact that most people who talk about studios like this are ignorant about all the show that studio makes. How many idiots who diss ZnT season 3 also watched Kimikiss, for example?
And I think Index is a fine show from a production value perspective, fyi. It’s well drawn.
October 23rd, 2008 - 01:33
Asatte no houkou and Kimikiss are 2 recent JCStaff productions that I personally felt were improved adaptations of the original. I think pinning down the director and series composer working on these anime adaptations may be a better gauge of series quality than ascribing bluntly failure to the studios.
Index has great potential as it’s helmed by Azumanga’s director and the heart and JC trademark cuteness is evident in its 3 eps, nestled amongst the action and strong plot development.
October 23rd, 2008 - 01:45
Index isn’t just “well drawn”, it objectively is the best-animated show I’ve watched this season so far. For example, its production values are _much_ higher than for example Clannad AS’s of always-heralded KyoAni fame. Much more detailed backgrounds, smooth animations… what’s not to love?
I’ve been leery of GONZO for a while, since they messed up a couple of endings of shows I liked as manga (particularly Pumpkin Scissors), but Druaga was quite respectable, and Blassreiter was among the best shows in the past seasons in my book.
JC Staff are usually always among the top when it comes to technical merit. And I’m reasonably confident that they will manage to properly handle Index (with hopefully a bit of Railgun content too).
October 23rd, 2008 - 02:25
I find that the productions JC Staff does vary in quality. For example, from what I gather, Slayers, Honey and Clover, and a multitude of other series are all heralded as incredibly awesome, yet at the same time, I’ve been witness to things like Zero no Tsukaima 2 and 3, and others say Shingetsutan Tsukihime was absolutely horrible (I thought it was okay as an anime, though when compared to the VN…). I don’t think it’s the studio itself, because, as mentioned previously, it’s an animation studio that other people hire to make stuff, not one that really goes out of their way to make original titles (ie: Gonzo). I think the factors of why some titles turn out to be, well, shit, and some turn out to be really good, are the staff, particularly the writers, the director, and the guy(s) in charge series composition, and the budget.
And for the record, Index is one of the best shows this season.
October 23rd, 2008 - 02:29
Bad news.zzeroparticle: episode 2 of Nodame Cantabile Paris rushed through a whole volume of manga involving the contest in one episode… and skipped almost all of the music too. And no symphony was used for anything that didn’t get cut, to judge by complaints.
An anime about musicians and music and performing which drops the music and musicians performing to focus in dinner and Chiaki being grabbed by men? And only one episode for the whole arc?
Nice to see that ToraDora wasn’t the only one getting screwed this week.
October 23rd, 2008 - 06:32
Well with that last question begging me to share my thoughts, Gonzo will never share its torched sin with any studio any time soon. They’ve been consistently out of form since the release of the abnormal Speed grapher and have been churning out abominations ever since, with a few exceptions of course (Romeo and Juliet, Black Cat was satisfactory and the somewhat formidable DRUAGA). JC staff might have had a few hiccups every now and then, but nothing earth shattering like Dragonaut. ZnT 2 had a poignant last episode that I appreciated very much (the voice acting in that episode was stellar), although most of it had poor writing. Shana as a whole was very good and entertaining, averaging in the bad parts too. Nodame was riveting and Honey and Clover was a breath of fresh air (loosely -speaking of course). Toradora although slightly skimpy, was brought to life with great energy, enjoying it very much. Index on the other hand with three episodes out, already has a solid foundation with charming characters, high-tier production values and a hook. So ya JC staff has a long way to go until Gonzo passes the baton.
October 23rd, 2008 - 06:40
I hear the original Oku-sama wa Mahou Shoujo manga is God awful and quite a bit different from the J.C. Staff anime. So while not entirely original, and not exactly great, J.C. Staff at least managed to improve upon the source material there and produce a grossly underrated series, albeit one blessed with a game-breaking home run of a premise.
October 23rd, 2008 - 07:18
>Sure there
October 23rd, 2008 - 09:24
My pet theory is that it’s good old Executive Meddling at work; some wit in a suit figures it’d boost ratings to make a show more like all the other shows in circulation that the audience seems to eat up happily enough.
Nevermind now if the story gets screwed up in the process.
Some circumstantial evidence that could be pointed at is that quite a few of the series that seem -according to the diligent research of mostly watching people air their grievances here, and maybe actually watching some of the products involved- to in effect be “shounen clich
October 23rd, 2008 - 09:28
… Volume 10 of Nodame Cantabile got cut into 20 minutes, and lost all the music.
…
Oookay. So, this is ‘adaptation’. Note to self: fidn people who made Sekerei popular, then get their money so they can’t buy more Sekeirei. Ever. Which should cut down the number of knockoffs, once the marketing guys find out there’s no money to be had.
October 23rd, 2008 - 10:34
@ Haesslich
Hence, why I blame the director. I wanted Kasai in the director’s chair, but instead, we have Chiaki Kon, whose handling of the series (from what I hear) was decidedly poor for episode 2. I’m still holding up hope though.
October 23rd, 2008 - 12:37
J.C. Staff gave us Potemayo last year. That series was outstanding.
October 23rd, 2008 - 12:44
Steven: They’ve always been inconsistent. It’s just that the inconsistency seems to get worse year after year… or they put the wrong people in the directors chair for adaptations. Seriously, an anime about music and performance, and a whole manga arc dedicated to the Paris competition.. and they cut all the music and jump straight for the finals?
October 23rd, 2008 - 15:22
Maybe they figured the audience wouldn’t be interested in too much Paris, seeing as how it’s all foreign an’ stuff…?
October 23rd, 2008 - 17:35
Watchman: The problem with THAT theory is that Volume 11, after the Competition, takes place all in Paris. Still. They stay there for another volume or so, IIRC. Remember the name of this series: “Nodame Cantabile Pari-hen” – it’s named after Paris and thus needs to take place in freaking Paris. And they just cut out almost all of Volume 10, which was half of ZE Paris Arc…. and if they rush through all of Volume 11 in Ep 3 the way they did the last volume in Ep 2, then why call this this season Pari-hen? They’ll either have to go on to Volume 12… or create 10 eps of anime-original filler.
And they’ve got 10 eps left after the next one, last I looked. Pacing suck much?
October 23rd, 2008 - 18:19
(Not exactly a direct response to this post, nor an insightful one, but here goes)
It’s just sad to see people pinning down the blame on studios when an anime “screws up” (“” quotes because of its subjectivity), especially when they end up losing faith and come to believe in their awesome ESP powers that future works from the studio will turn into a “trainwreck”.
I guess it’s alright to be wary of the studio’s future works if you’ve had “horror experiences” with them (though as was mentioned, the ones at work here are the staff, not exactly the studio per se), but to proclaim an anime as t3h suckage simply by “studio typecasting”, is a lazy (and close-minded) excuse to skip out on animes, IMO. People who review shows with this bias should post a “studio typecasting hate @ work” disclaimer or something (if they acknowledge the fact that they are being affected by their hate, that is) ^^;
October 23rd, 2008 - 18:41
At some point, J.C Staff sucks. >_<
October 24th, 2008 - 02:30
Usaginen: notice how I said they’re inconsistent. With adaptations, they either do very well (Honey and Clover, Azumanga Daioh, Mahoraba) or they screw up the adaptation and make it mediocre (Shakugan no Shana S2) if not something which makes the fans declare a jihad (ZnT s2 and 3). More and more, their good attempts ate moving towards mediocrevand their bad attempts towards ‘who wrote this shit?!?’. Either the director is the wrong choice for the story or the executives and accountants are cutting the directors off in an effort to pander to a perceived audience. And it’s happening more and more – KimiKiss may have been better than the source, but it was still pretty bad. Somewhere along the way, they forgot that SnS was a shounen action show with some romantic elements and turned the first half if S2 into a tepid love comedy which was painful to watch as the characters seemingly forgot the last few episodes of the first season. And this week they took half an arc and a show about musicians performing classical music and took out most of the music. Imagine NANA without any concerts or band performances despite focusing on Nana and Blsst at various parts of the show and movie.
They sure don’t seem to be trying hard to improve their rep as a studio or company. At least they restored the revelation of Kitamura confessing last year in episode 4. A tad late, but at least the puzzle piece is available for viewers to add to their mental pictures. But with bloggers like Mentar declaring Taiga a violent psychopath as a reason to drop a show (and he was a huge fan of various J.C. Staff adaptations)… hell, many bloggers who’ve been around more than 4-5 years seem to feel the same.
October 24th, 2008 - 02:39
This bugger won’t let me edit. At the same time, the good shows which show up seem to do so despite executive ibterfrerence or directorial decisions. I’ll reconstruct the post the blog lost later, but there are very few studios who generate such mixed feelings. Sunrise is one. Gonzo is the other.
October 24th, 2008 - 07:26
Sorry about the blog/comment problems, Haesslich. It seems to work fine for me so I do need feedback on what went awry so I try and fix whatever’s wonky with the backend, plugins etc.
October 24th, 2008 - 08:33
I still like JC Staff quite a bit, from Azumanga through more recent stuff like Shana 2. Majutsu Index is shaping up to be my favorite show of this season.
As far as original material though… I can’t say they do that well. In fact, Studio BONES is miles ahead of anyone else when it comes to taking risks and producing quality original concept anime. Wolf’s Rain, HagaRen, Eureka Seven, Darker than Black, and so forth. I rank BONES #1, even above KyoAni – who don’t make anything but adaptations games/manga/novels for the most part.
October 24th, 2008 - 10:40
Zyl: I’m betting it was the browser, which wasn’t FireFox or IE. It loaded the editing box fine, but then it wouldn’t save it. It works on THAT Anime Blog, so I know the browser handles the AJAX plugin properly.
The main points here I wanted to make are these: J.C. Staff’s ‘good’ productions seem to happen despite the best efforts of higher-ups or directors, at least for the past two or three years. It used to be that their adaptations were almost always very good in quality – they did original stuff, but the original stuff fit into the original story so well in terms of feel and content that it didn’t look out of place… whereas I’ve seen bloggers who’ve admitted they never read ToraDora think that episode 3, and in particular Taiga’s characterization, felt ‘funny’ because Ryuuji is so horribly well-written in contrast; and that’s because they didn’t hack his characterization to pieces.
The only two studios which seem to provoke this particular mixed reaction when shows get produced besides J.C. Staff are Sunrise and Gonzo, both of whom are capable of absolutely spectacular shows which are horribly entertaining (or are mediocre but otherwise fun to watch)… and shows which are just horrible. Gonzo’s gotten a bad rap for many of the shows they’ve released since Last Exile, but Druaga actually had good animation (IMO) and was somewhat entertaining.
But J.C. Staff, of all the studios I’ve seen who seem to focus a lot on adaptations, at least in recent years has had a tendency to forget they’re adapting a show and instead try to ‘reimagine’ it or retool it to capitalize on a fad; like the current one for tsunderes, as an example. Even Magical Index falls victim to this to a degree, but at least this time the loli tsundere is much more dere than she is murderous. Taiga’s most charming parts so far, from the responses I’ve seen, are when she’s not acting like the murderous psychopath Louise turned into after the end of season 1 of Zero no Tsukaima… and coincidentally, those parts are usually the most like the character the adaptation was supposedly based on. Or, with the older Shakugan no Shana 2 example, they took away the character development from the last two or so episodes of the show in order to allow them to develop an idiot plot which focused around Yuuji being in a bad love triangle with Shana, Konoe, and Yoshida where everyone forgets who they were to focus on a very cliche love triangle… only remembering people had tuned in for Shana fighting as well as her being tsundere.
You know what the scary part is? We know J.C. Staff is capable of better work than they’ve shown on some of their featured shows the past few seasons – but what they’ve done to Nodame Cantabile Pari-hen so far worries me, since removing the music is akin to having done Honey and Clover but taken out all the art school bits and relationship issues to focus on Takemoto riding a bike or looking for a job… which wasn’t what the manga was about.
October 24th, 2008 - 12:22
Note: Even Author was complaining about Pari-hen’s third episode, after shrugging off the complaints about the first two episodes compressing too much stuff from the manga.
…
October 26th, 2008 - 10:54
re: comment problems. WP Ajax Comment Edit plugin has been having a constant stream of updates over the past few days. Thank goodness for the one click plugin updater in WP 2.6+! Hopefully the up-to-date version will reduce the incidence of problems.