Lelouch vs Suzaku ~ Of light and darkness
There are a few things I don't understand about CG fandom. For example, perceiving CG R2 ep 5 as filler-esque, the immense popularity of Kallen or the veneration of Lelouch. I admit Lelouch is admirable in mind and siscon but he's hardly a person one should look up to with his deeply scarred, revenge-ravaged heart and blood-soaked hands. As with most who are hell-bent on revenge, Lelouch is a myopic man trapped by past injustices. Although he claims that the revenge is aimed at securing a future for Nunnally, ep 5 shows us that the 2 items are distinct and possibly incongruent after all. I have no doubt CG R2 would force Lelouch to choose between revenge for his mother or a future for his sister. Ah, looking forward to sweet sweet SUNRISE drama then.
Suzaku, on the other hand, I've found to be honorable and magnanimous in almost all his dealings. Too many, I believe, confuse the purpose a person strives for with the power he serves. While Brittannia may be alluded the evil empire of biblical proportions (Babylon), Suzaku appears not to stand for its diabolical ideals (yet) but fulfills his duty as part of his grand scheme (as revealed in ep 5). Even now, I can't really pin any wrongdoings on Suzaku except his naivety to believe that Brittania would honour their word to Knight of One in a manner that he has envisioned.
Of course many has also decried Suzaku to be a hypocrite for killing his father in a bid to reduce bloodshed only to join eventually the aggressor army, perpetuating more violence. But I think Suzaku has held true to his beliefs and this is also where Suzaku and Lelouch are markedly different. Suzaku seeks to effect graded change within an ordered framework, to minimise collaterals even if the system is an evil one whereas Lelouch attempts that quantum leapt to utopia through chaos. As the very least, Suzaku's goals are backed by honourable intentions (even though they might lead him to hell instead.)
Anyhow, kudos to SUNRISE for crafting such affecting characters to carry the intriguing plot. While Suzaku may be an angel of the dark armies and Lelouch, the devil masquerading as the angel of light for now, one should never underestimate the convoluting paths of salvation/damnation SUNRISE's pen can conjure. Can't wait for ep 6.
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May 9th, 2008 - 11:43
I think the biggest problem people have with Suzaku is the fact his character is too Jesus-like. The guy runs up walls, dodges machine gun bullets, spins 3-4 times in mid-air, pilots a mech better than everyone else despite never being in one before, and now he comes up with devious plans. He’s irritating because he’s a male Mary Sue, and I hate Mary Sue’s.
In addition killing your own father so your country surrenders he then used a blind, crippled girl who’s supposed to be a dear friend he grew up with as bait, which means you’re a dick. Add that to the fact he claims the moral highground while doing so, it just makes him a “moralfag” hypocrite. He’s abandoned those beliefs in his drive to get revenge for Euphemia’s death. And as I’ve mentioned before in my own entries, I find their relationship pretty laughable. The guy is so in love with her after going on one date, enough to abandon his moral high ground and try to kill Lelouch? I just don’t get it. Add that to the fact that she’s a one-sided, naive, and rather irritating character, and I don’t see that she is worthy of such dedication to holding a grudge.
Finally, the naivet
May 9th, 2008 - 11:56
Sorry Calawain, but Suzaku has a classic can’t-die CLAMP design. Did you not see his hair and his kicking? There is absolutely no way he can die (unless he has a clone or something).
You know that part where Rollo says his Geass has a weakness? How much you want to bet that the weakness is if you run at Rollo, jump up and run on the wall, and do a 720 degree turn in the air, Rollo’s Geass will not be able to stop you from kicking him? I am soooo sure this is going to happen!
Also, Stripey, how can you not understand Kallen’s appeal…? Zyl should be very very disappointed in himself!
May 9th, 2008 - 12:18
Kabitzin speaks the truth — he’s weak against projectiles, and a flying kick certainly counts as one. We all know how Rollo would have fared against that sniper if not for Lelouch taking that bullet for him!
May 9th, 2008 - 12:58
And, I would imagine, remotely-controlled attacks? Perhaps.
Anyway, Code Geass’s ability to polarise opinion over Lelouch and Suzaku is definitely a credit to its writers. But I’d hesitate to say that either one is superior to the other; they’re both blind.
May 9th, 2008 - 13:23
Hahaha! Interesting comments!
May 9th, 2008 - 15:09
Stripey how could you! I mean I could stand your lolicon and siscon tendencies because you always showed deep love towards Kotori from DC but this post is beyond redemption! Putting that self righteous bastard, that would sell is best friend in exchange for more power while still pretending he is the JUST one while he only cares for revenge of his girlfriend, over Lelouch is pure HERESY! Yes, Lelouch is hell bent on revenge, yes I agree with you that he will have to decide between Nunally and revenge and he will proly go for revenge and will use ANY means to achieve his goals. I agree he isn’t one of the good guys but at least he is aware of that! He sees himself as the evil that is necessary to overthrow greater evil that is Britanian Empire. Even tho he lies, cheats, uses his followers as pawns and kills he is at least honest with himself. He is aware of his darkness which makes him 100% better than Suzaku.
Putting CG discussion aside. I recently watched “Shuffle!”. I’ve been following your blog for only few months so I dunno if you have seen it but if you haven’t then you must see it just for the sake Sia who I call “Kotori incarnation” <3 .
May 9th, 2008 - 15:24
People tend to whitewash Lelouch while vilifying Suzaku because Lelouch is the protagonist (a stylish anti-hero protagonist, even). The audience naturally identifies with the protagonist – they think he’s cool, they want to like him and be like him. And then they cannot admit that this idol is capable of doing wrong, so they start making excuses for him to justify his actions even when Lelouch himself does not.
The hate for Suzaku has always struck me as a little odd. Nothing he has done comes even close to the havoc that Lelouch causes on a daily basis. It is okay for Lelouch to use people’s emotions against them but not okay when Suzaku does it? Suzaku was decried as stupid and naive for fighting fair in the first season, and now evil and manipulative for not fighting fair. What exactly do people want from the guy, anyway?
I’m still ambivalent about whether I like either of them as characters. As plot devices, of course, they are brilliant.
“Filler-esque” is probably just gut reaction to the episode containing humor and fanservice. Those are by no means mutually exclusive with plot, but they are commonly used as fillers. And on the whole I find Kallen a more sympathetic character than, say, C.C., because she is open with her thoughts and emotions.
May 9th, 2008 - 16:03
The hate for Suzaku has a simple explanation. The guy is a total moral douchebag and a giant tool.
May 9th, 2008 - 17:51
Lelouch can be King of Britannia, and Suzaku, Queen.
May 9th, 2008 - 19:48
lolz…
suzaku sure is receiving a lot of flak…
well i’m not gonna add more flak since i don’t quite like suzaku…
still it’s nice to see some thoughts of those who are on the “suzaku is not really that bad” side of the fence…
May 9th, 2008 - 21:07
I think Suzaku is a really interesting character. Let’s face it, he’s pretty screwed up in the head, I mean come on – you don’t kill your own father unless you have severe mental issues. That being said, he is certainly much more interesting than your average goody-two-shoes Kira Yamato type moralfag. The guy doesn’t realize his actions contradict his words. That’s why you don’t know what to expect from this guy – like he can save random people one day, fight a war on the side of the enemy the other, sell his best friend off or even go so far as use a blind crippled girl to further his own ambition. That’s what makes him so entertaining – the fact that he is totally unpredictable…that and the fact that he is the only character so far in the CG universe that can give Lelouch a run for his money. People keep vying for his death, but without a good opponent to overcome, Lelouch’s potential will be totally wasted.
As for why people hate him so much, I think that people just love a rebel like Lelouch – somebody to go against the system. He’s also much more believable and realistic in his desire for revenge. People are sick of following the rules in their everyday lives, so at least in the imaginary world of any anime, they like to support someone who goes against the rules, and abhor someone who always preaches about self-righteousness. I guess what they don’t realize that Suzaku stopped being a moralistic idiot the moment Euphie was killed. I don’t want to start analyzing how deep their relationship was, but let me say that in anime you cannot see the complete picture. We do not need 15 episodes of them cuddling and going on dates etc. to establish that they are in love – people can get this in a couple of episodes. It’s really no surprise he was pissed off when she was killed and I understand him (though I also found her a very irritating character). After her death, Suzaku became much more ruthless and dropped the whole moral facade and started using more sneaky tactics to get ahead and get back at Lelouch. One would think that people would hate him less for that, but by that point, people already hated him so much that those deplorable acts of his only served to fuel people’s hatred even more. I guess in the end people need someone to hate!
I guess I’m on Lelouch’s side of the conflict, since I find him a great, unique fascinating character, but I do not hate Suzaku either. I think it’s really interesting to see two former best friends go at each other and each of them going their separate ways and achieving their goals in a different way. I hope we see a second confrontation between them at the end of this season that will be filled with action, emotion and adrenaline.
As for the fans’ obsession with Kallen, I can definitely see where it is coming from, but I do not share it at all. Kallen is just a fanservice/comic relief character who is good at killing random grunts at times. If she were male or more generic in terms of character design, people would never notice her.
Anyways, sorry for the long post. I hope someone read it through the end.
May 10th, 2008 - 00:50
Stripey I write this in response to the title of this entry, which states that it’s a fight of light and dark.
I think we can obviously see from the arguments of the various people above me that Code Geass is not as simple as labelling one character light and the other dark.
We’ve basically seen light and dark characteristics from both characters, Lelouch who wishes to create a future for his sister (light) in comparison to his hatred of his father (dark) or Suzaku’s moralistic purpose of changing the empire for the better in the inside (light) as opposed to him wanting vengeance for Euphemia’s death (dark).
Code Geass is a show that on the surface appears to be a conflict between black and white or light and dark, but if you look closely the foundation of the show which is it’s characters depict a more complex relationship then merely good vs evil.
May 10th, 2008 - 08:56
Sorry Calawain, but Suzaku has a classic can
May 11th, 2008 - 08:15
Heh, thanks for everyone’s thoughts.
*mild spoilers*
One recurring point is how Suzaku is scum because he makes use of Nunnally to expose Lelouch. Notice that statement actually came from Lelouch himself. I give Suzaku a lot more credit than that. He has consistently shown himself to care deeply for Nunnally and I’m sure he believes that Nunnaly is much safer away from Zero even if she’s in the clutches of Brittannia. If we zoom out and take a macroview of Nunnaly becoming Area 11 Governor, it’s actually a step toward Suzaku’s aspirations to free the Japanese people from Brittania tyranny. At the same time it grants Nunnaly a certain level of protection. Weeding Zero out is merely byproduct of that development by Suzaku’s terms although it is wholly Brittania’s objective. Yes, Suzaku would be naive to think innocently of Brittania’s move to install Nunnaly but evil intent have often been thwarted towards good causes and Suzaku is surely leveraging on that.
Oh and on light and darkness, pardon my poor choice of a title (it was late and the bed beckoned
) I love SUNRISE because light is not good nor is darkness evil. Many of their characters exists in psychedelic shades of grey/white/black that it’s fascinating. 
May 12th, 2008 - 03:43
Lelouch is just unlucky that he has to gather everything together and run his own gig. If Lelouch spends too much time thinking about right n wrong or sanity, things will only tweak against his favour since Suzaku for the most part just needs to yes my lord. Besides, that’s why Lelouch isnt a philosophy but a conqueror. SO JUST DO IT LULUUUUCH!! IF YOU DO BREAK IT THEN try n FIX IT LATER LOLOL
Btw, I like both Suzaku and Lelouch (while its aiiiii for kallen and president)
Just that this season, Lelouch in mask seems to have more flashy dance moves (eek) while on tv.
May 12th, 2008 - 11:18
Would you say the same thing if you compared Suzaku to a jewish person that sold out his family to the Nazi’s or a African slave selling out his coslave workers to win his masters trust and “change” his heart.
The only thing is that thanks to Deus ex machina Lelouch is still alive but Lelouch should have been killed and Suzaku would eventually gain his country with Britannia still being the conquering bastards that step on weaker people whenever they wanted.
Suzaku is just an optimist and thinks everything can be arranged by not shedding blood but he should realize that that’s just not possible. Atleast Lelouch has realized what he needs to do and even if he steps over a lot of people to get what he wants he still is the lesser of two evils.
May 13th, 2008 - 09:03
Hmmm, Brittannia is not quite Nazi German since even though the Japanese live as 2nd class citizens, there are no genocide and concentration camps. (Euphie’s incident was an one-off excursion) Suzaku did not sell out the Japanese people, he merely joined Brittania to fight the Japanese resistance. If one dissects his motives, he would realise Suzaku ultimately aims for the welfare of the Japanese people, just that he takes a path-less travelled. Whether or not he loses his way remains to be seen but for now I’d say he’s on track.
I’d agree with you that Suzaku is naive and idealistic but that’s nowhere near sending one’s people to the Holocaust
May 13th, 2008 - 16:19
Maybe an extreme example I admit, but remember that there were no real repercussions from Euphies apparent mass murdering(Atleast there might have been but it hasn’t been revealed yet).
Also it’s hard not to notice how many times Brittanian soldiers just started killing innocent Japanese the Shinjuku ghetto incidents where they just started killing off everyone they saw (which was weird compared to how they didn’t kill off any Black Knights members in R2 but oh well) or the start of R2. Heck Suzaku saw them do it in the first episode but he still manages to look past that.
May 14th, 2008 - 08:01
Indeed, I have to agree that Brittania is no benevolent ruler. But I think the massacre of Shinjuku is not a good benchmark either since Clovis acted of his accord in a bid to recover C.C. as apparently part of a plot to usurp the throne (to gain the Geass in an unorthodox method) Although Suzaku was part of the troops, he actually sacrificed himself to protect Lelouch twice in one ep (not realising it was Lelouch the first time somemore). It’s the governor who becomes the face of the empire and such travesty would not be suffered under the honourable leadership of Cornelia. But now that we have Nunnally (impotent as she may be) Area 11 should turn for the better and some credit needs to be given to Suzaku instead of consistently seeing it as a move to bait and betray.
Still, this recent development does not bode well for Nunnally’s chances to reach curtain fall XD
May 14th, 2008 - 09:09
Well Suzaku isn’t all bad I mean I don’t like him but I can see that he has a good intentions. But I guess that’s the whole point of the story by showing us that there never really is such thing as pure good and pure evil since almost every character in the show has shown us both sides…(Euphie and Nunnally being the exception ofcourse which is why I agree with your statement that Nunnally might kick it before or at the end of the series).
I do hope that they make a Nightmare of Nunnally OAV or TV series since I would love to see how she would act if given a similar power as Lelouch…
May 15th, 2008 - 08:46
heh Nightmare of Nunnally. I wonder if she already has a geass which is why she keeps her eyes shut for fear of it going rogue
May 16th, 2008 - 00:11
I’ve always argued that the root of people’s problem with Suzaku is that very few, if any, likes a quisling (collaborator). There’s more issuses as far as Suzaku goes as well, but I’m sure that those have bene mentioned hrere or elsewhere, so I won’t risk going into a rant :p <_<
May 16th, 2008 - 18:14
When I saw Suzaku in first few episodes of the first season, I came to dislike him even then, not to mention later on. It was evident from his actions that this was a person who grew up with serious mental issues and was justifying his every action under the facade of higher goals and justice be it out of ignorance or naivety ie. in his own eyes his actions were truly just and everyone else was wrong. You can notice in R2 that he also uses the same justification, although his actions became increasingly malevolent. If you remember some past episodes where Cornelia fought in Middle East( I think it was), it is evident that top knights must be prepared for some serious killing. He didn’t become one of 3 just to be a decoration, (taking aside the fact he knows secrets about geass, the king could have offed him in an instant if he thought of him as a security issue) he is expected to do some serious damage, point being he is treading a path that is not just or good, (let’s be honest war is never a good or just thing) but still portraying himself as being a saint. On a side note I wish Toudou would beat some sense into him, because his former sensei could probably tear him apart in hand-to-hand.
Also as Specie mentioned the fact that he is a collaborator, doesn’t sit well with anyone. I agree and also put his actions in light of real life, he would be considered the lowest of the scum for what he had done; basically betraying anyone close to him.
The other aspect is the Britannian ruler himself, he is as ruthless as he is smart and Suzaku is naively idiotic if he thinks he can achieve anything. Any sane king would keep him on a tight leash (which he is apparently doing), since anyone who betrayed his own people will do it again if the situation arises.
Now if I switch from the realistic view to storytelling perspective you can easily realize that he is one of the characters that keeps the story flow going, even though he is one of the most hated characters in the anime. He is necessary evil for the suspense and thought provoking flow as the story unfolds.
Sorry everyone for this long and inconsistent rant
.
May 17th, 2008 - 09:31
Specie: Whatever one’s actions, it’s always important to consider his underlying motivations and Suzaku has good intentions although as Zyl says, “the road to hell is paved with good intentions”. Many a collaborators happen to be double spies who turn out to be real national heroes. I guess we’ll have to just wait and see for Suzaku.
Weddo: On the matter of killing, I think there is a big difference between fighting between armed factions and massacring unarmed civilians. Suzaku hasn’t degenerated to the latter.. yet. In fact he offers the same graciousness to armed troops in ep 1 (or 2?) of R2 (fighting the EU?) I don’t deny that Suzaku has issues (as mentioned, anyone who offs his own father has problems) but I can definitely understand the path he chose even though I may not fully agree with it
May 17th, 2008 - 10:22
Of course we know that the real reason why Suzaku is evil is because he wants the Lulu butt sexz.
May 17th, 2008 - 21:41
LOL! If Suzaku chooses Lelouch over pink haired and hime lolis, he deserves to get some from the Emperor himself XD
May 21st, 2008 - 01:27
Yeah, yeah, but then again, Lelouch also has good intentions :p But that’s Lelouch and Suzaku in a nutshell, both have different methods but more or less the same goal. They’re, say two garderners who argue what to do a but a sick tree; one gardener thinks the tree have grown sick/rotten on the inside beyond salvation and thus wants to cut it down and plant a new tree in it’s place, while the other one thinks it can still be saved if it’s done through careful work and care…
Yeah, yeah, many a collaborator have ended that way. Of course, just as many if not more have ended up as national traitors and ended their days facing a firing squad or the like.. :p
May 23rd, 2008 - 07:36
I suppose that’s what makes Code Geass a great show. The characters are in various shades of grey.
I wouldn’t put the Emperor evil either actually. If I were in his position, I might want to challenge the deities themselves XD
December 26th, 2008 - 02:12
Well…i like them both.But i have to say that suzaku doesnt have a mental issue. Because to start of, his mind was already matured enough when hes a kid to know whats happening in their country thats why he killed his father for the sake of others. And he is seeking revenge for his love but at least suzaku and lelouch team up at the end.(too bad lelouch died!!!) p.s dont really like nunally=)hehe! she betrayed lelouch!!!! ALL HAIL LELOUCH!
June 2nd, 2009 - 10:42
Lets not forget that, originally (pre-production), Lelouch and Suzaku were supposed to be the same character but, later on, were split into 2 distinct characters; 2 sides of a coin.