hontou ni Stripey Insists Sisters Cry Oniichan Now

1. 

   TheBigN
   March 19th, 2008 - 08:24

   “my support has been typically for the couple that can muster the greatest amount of love.”

   How does one measure that, I wonder?

   ( REPLY )
2. 

   Owen S
   March 19th, 2008 - 09:24

   Silly N, it’s all about endearing the viewer to the final couple!

   I have to admit that episode 11 sort of tore down all the Noe endearment that True Tears has been building up, if only because she went from Tragic-girl-that-isn’t-your-usual-emo to Demented-chicken-girl-that-wants-to-fly-and-get-hypothermia. Still, despite being a diehard Shin x Hiromi guy, I have to give them props for not going the easy route and leaving a Noe possibility in this late into the game.

   ( REPLY )
3. 

   Crusader
   March 19th, 2008 - 14:17

   I still think that there is a possibility that Hiromi will screw herself over and that Shin-chan is not dedicated to Hiromi as we once thought. When Hiromi was being fouled it was not Shin-chan who came to her rescue it was Jun, and while you dismiss the possibility that Shin-chan leaning towards Noe its hard to ignore fact the artist part of him dedicated far more time Raigomaru and Jibeta than a teary eyed Hiromi. It is wrong to believe that there is not another curve ball in store given how Hiromi has ascended rapidly. True Hiromi is free now, but the age old problem of her jealous nature remains, she wants to be Shin-chan’s girl, but is she really in love with him? She still suspects him of being unfaithful and hesitated at the moment of truth. I have no problem with Hiromi getting Shin-chan in the end, but I would absolutely hate it if Noe has to be the sacrificial lamb for that jealous wench.

   Noe wears her heart on her sleeve Hiromi is still using deception, and I suspect that Shin-chan is not aware of what lengths Hiromi will go to get him. If and when Shin-chan does see Hiromi for all that she is including the jealousy will he still love the Hiromi that is or was he in love with the Hiromi of years past who has long since died?

   Hiromi has things stacked in her favor yet she seems to be insufferable in victory she got the kiss, she got her freedom, she got her Shin-chan back, and yet it all seems hollow. Noe is desperate to believe again. She needs to believe that Jibeta can fulfill her wish because she has no one left. Sure she still has Jun, but Noe is unaware of his feelings for her and now that the sting of Shin-chan’s abandonment has been felt full force you dare like Noe to Kaede if anything Hiromi is far more capable of breaking out a knife, and surly any weapons at this point will sink the series in a heartbeat and faster than you can say NICE BOAT.

   @Owen S
   You sir have no heart. Shin-chan had essentially abandoned Noe and now that Raigomaru is dead, and Shin-chan is off to fly with Hiromi, Jibeta is the only friend she has left. I say that Noe is now so heartbroken that she is desperate to believe in something, as Jibeta has remained a true friend while Shih-chan left it is only natural that Noe would want Jibeta to fly, after all she has been more considerate of him lately. Enjoy your Hiromi x Shin-chan ending for Noe and Jun will have to pay dearly for it and by then Hiromi better prove worthy and have a heart of gold rather than a blackened lump marred by jealousy. To call Noe demented is to discount that fact that Noe was able to read Shin-chan’s heart and let him go, Noe is aware that she would like to run away, and is cognizant of what precisely it is that pain her heart. SWhe did not want to get hypothermia if Noe did she would have jumped into the freezing water, she just went to the only sure thing left in her life, the chicken coop, she brought a blanket and to be honest that goes a long way in allaying the cold even without a shelter.

   ( REPLY )
4. 

   vexx
   March 19th, 2008 - 14:59

   Hmmmmm, so are we going to be presented with everyone happy at the end but Noe – who spends half the last episode crying “true tears”? Answer: I have no freaking idea.

   The ride has definitely been intriguing though — and I’m always liking quirky characters, both Noe and Hiromi qualify there….

   ( REPLY )
5. 

   Dirian
   March 19th, 2008 - 15:09

   I had two different scenarios in my head of the general way this show would go if the writers maintained their integrity. One for a Noe ending, one for a Hiromi ending. Right now they’re still pretty much following both, and I’m not going to call ANYTHING.

   I was kinda annoyed at how everything seemed to clear up for Hiromi overnight. Seemed so very much deus ex machina, but given the developments that had to happen regardless I can see it was necessary and with this episode I’m glad to see that the past episode or two weren’t the huge telegraphing of the end I originally was worried they might be(if the writers went the copout route, which I was worried about with all the aforementioned deus ex machina).

   Anyway, don’t count anything out Stripey, the momentum shifts way too quick in a show like this.

   And don’t lie. You know you always support the couple that involves the most taboo love. Especially if it’s a siscon relationship =P

   ( REPLY )
6. 

   Cyrilix
   March 19th, 2008 - 17:53

   I agree with pretty much everything you said, Stripey.

   @Crusader:
   While Noe does certainly get a title for being perhaps one of the most understanding / saintly / innocent characters, what I don’t clearly see at all is the romance between her and Shin. I see a certain level of endearment and closeness between the two, without a doubt, but I think Hiromi is far better girlfriend material, and the only way to satisfactorily end this show. To me, it feels like Shin also treats her like a sister, not a girlfriend. Despite the fact that they’re officially “a couple”, they’re only a couple in name.

   ( REPLY )
7. 

   Kabitzin
   March 19th, 2008 - 19:12

   Yeah, I don’t sense the spark between Noe and Shinichiro. She inspired him to write that book and… that’s it.

   ( REPLY )
8. 

   Stripey
   March 20th, 2008 - 09:15

   TheBigN: I go by how much a person is willing to sacrifice for his love.

   Owen S: heh, Noe is not quite there yet but if she casts Jibeta into the sea next ep, we’ll be looking at Sonozaki Shion levels here XD I’m praying to Raigomaru that doesn’t happen.

   Crusader: hehe you know my stance on jealous girls. XD I think jealousy is part and parcel of every healthy relationship and Hiromi has it in a suitably small amount which is also under control. I’m not so keen to see either Noe or Hiromi break out the boxcutter actually. But I wouldn’t mind seeing Jun X Noe casting themselves off the breakwater as doomed lover… NOT! Sorry allowed my siscon nature to get the better of me. *Bad Stripey! BAD!* XD

   vexx: Noe is refreshingly quirky. Hiromi is not your typical school idol either. Strangely both have qualities that makes me think of my wife… XD

   Dirian:

   >And don

   ( REPLY )
9. 

   Cipher
   March 20th, 2008 - 09:27

   THANK YOU STRIPEY. I thought I was the only one who didn’t think it weird that Shinichiro was taken aback at Hiromi’s kiss. Comparisons with that to Aiko’s kiss are not accurate; Shin very much put his foot down when it came to the latter, but Hiromi’s kiss was not something he didn’t like; to be honest I don’t think he even knew what to make of it. After all, he hasn’t exactly started a new relationship with Hiromi, and his status with Noe is very much in limbo at the moment.

   It does disappoint me that Shinichiro had to have the Noe flashbacks in this ep, especially after he declared that he’d “do everything right”, but I suppose change is gradual, and he will slowly and ultimately make the right choice, whichever it is. In that sense, I’m not that alarmed as it is technically a story development than mere appeasement of the Noe masses. I, for one, would like to be shown how hard it is to make the right choices than to just be force-fed a decision made by the plot.

   OwenS: I’ve had the opportunity to read your blog and the kimikiss-true tears related interview you posted up, and I liked it very much. I think what really resonated with me is how the imperfections of the characters have made the show so believeable and realistic. I attribute my Hiromi affections to that; her flaws and shortcomings have made her vividly more real than many anime females I’ve seen for a while. As much as Hiromi’s shortcomings emphasize Noe’s innocence and charm, Noe’s naivety and childlike personality serves to draw out the realness of Hiromi, and I appreciate them both for that.

   Crusader: Hoo-boy. You never give up hating Hiromi don’t you? *sigh*

   Regarding the fouls on Hiromi and Jun’s intervention, do you think it is Shinichiro’s place to even intervene in a basketball match like that? You are assuming he has full knowledge of basketball rules and that he is in ANY relative position to do so, which as a home-ground spectator, he is not. Jun was clearly in much better position to judge the foul, both literally and in the sense that he was part of the opposing school’s mens’ team. Hence, I do not see any basis for you in comparing Shin to Jun in said situation.

   About Shinichiro’s artisitc abilities and their concurrent results, yes it is admitted that he has drawn so much about Raigomaru and Jibeta than of the teary-eyed girl. But here’s where I see it differently; he’s been drawing Raigomaru and Jibeta, not Noe or some allusion to her. The teary eyed girl is very much an allusion to Hiromi, given his reactions to Hiromi seeing it. My point here is this, if you are comparing in terms of the art itself, Noe is more of a muse to Shinichiro than a lover. Otherwise why would he be so open with such a picture book while being so embarrassed about a single sketch of a teary-eyed girl? He shows his works to his muse to further gain insight on the story of the two chickens, but hides his own insight regarding the one he loves. Hence, no, judging by art, Noe does not show any superior influence over Shin as a love interest.

   Yes, Hiromi is very much in love with him, and to this if you object so vigorously still after the kiss she planted I will only ask you this; what proof does anyone have that Noe loves Shin as a lover, which cannot be reinterpreted as loving an adorable pet, or caring for an equal? To me, it has been that lick on his cheek and the hug she gave to him at the pier that has given the difference, and if I were to be as blind as to ignore that, then indeed there is none. I cannot truly interpret her relinquishing of Shin as a romantic form of love; love it is indeed, but I have seen people to the same things with their pets when they have had to release it to a different person for fear of not being able to give them the best. Similarly, you have reiterated how you doubt Hiromi’s love for Shinichiro, and all I will say is this; there has been more than enough proof shown already, it’s a matter of interpretation, and with your current biased interpretation, obviously there is none. *shrug* So if you can doubt Hiromi’s love for Shin, Noe’s love for Shin too is questionable.

   About Hiromi’s jealousy, this only shows how little you have observed her character (apart from the aspects you have liked to hate). This episode has, on the contrary, shown her progress from when she was under the Nakagami household. Then, the lack of meaningful contact with Shinichiro has only served to bring about her lack of belief that Shinichiro would remain by her side (showing at least that she is aware of the distance between them, as opposed to being naive and believing what little she has shown would be enough); give her the Noe disappearance situation then, and I doubt she would have contacted Shin at all. Now, though, she has done relatively much more with Shin (given the end of ep10, the apartment visit and the kiss), so she has shown that she is willing to try and trust in Shin.

   Proof? After Jun’s call, you may have conveniently neglected to notice that she actually went straight to Shinichiro’s number, stopping for a moment’s hesitation. We are not told the actual time length of her hesitation, but judging how she went straight for Shin’s number, I’m willing to believe that she took 5 minutes or so, as opposed to an hour or more. If you are objecting out of concern for Noe’s safety, 5 minutes is hardly the worst time delay that can happen. If the actual hesitation is what bugs you, let’s get the situation straight: Hiromi and Noe are both love rivals for Shinichiro (assume incomplete information that Hiromi does not know Noe has decided to give up on Shin), and she is asked to send her love interest to find said love rival? Given that situation, 5 minutes of waiting is DEFINITELY not the longest waiting time, especially given how she saw the picture book in Shin’s room. Hence, the actual action of calling Shin has much more weight than the hesitation which you have misplaced focus on.

   You cite her being jealous still, but Rome was not built in one day. Change is gradual, a metamorphosis is an on-going event, not an instantaneous, permanent occasion. She has very much become more open with her expressions to Shin, and more honest with herself, but that does not mean that the past is erased. To trust Shin as she did in this episode for the first time definitely invites doubt and does not prevent jealousy towards Noe, but such is change. She grows with each experience, as do we. To expect her to trust Shinichiro as a full-fledged lover should when she has barely gotten her freedom is to be unrealistic and blindly critical.

   We do not know the true nature of the Hiromi in the past, but I am inclined to believe that Shinichiro chased after the present Hiromi, the Hiromi whose tears he wanted to wipe as opposed to the girl whose smile was lost, at the end of ep10. The two are very different; one would be liking a girl for her charms and traits, while the other would be to actually be there to comfort and console. Had he been so caught up with the Hiromi of the past, he wouldn’t even have bothered to chase after them during the bike crash incident.

   And about her ‘hollow’ victory, you see it as ‘empty’. I see it as ‘can be filled’. Two sides of the same coin? Perhaps.

   I would also like to ask you, since when did Shinichiro ‘abandon’ Noe? For one, Shinichiro didn’t exactly say “I don’t want to stay by your side.” No, it was Noe who told him that ‘your place to fly from isn’t here’. If it was since the hug in the snow, are you saying that a reaction out of relief that Hiromi was safe is so wrong? That hug wasn’t even romantic in context, just a show of how glad he was that Hiromi was safe. However it was from there Noe could see how much he cared for Hiromi, and decided to withdraw from Shin. No one is to be blamed, so I don’t see why you have to point your finger at Shin in the first place.

   I do agree with your defense of Noe, even though the blanket part really looks more trivial than anything. However, for all her mental awareness, she neglected in considering Jun; as a brother, a human being of the same family, and a person that she has confided in before, Jun is surely more of a realistic option to go back to rather than the chicken coop and Jibeta, which offers metaphorical comfort and little else. Not only is she putting more faith in a chicken than her own brother, her disappearance has also struck worry inside Jun, which she may have forgotten. She may not be demented, but she is so focused on the things so far away from her that I fear she cannot see the shelter in front of her very eyes. Which is what I suppose her story might be; a tale of realization that the most precious things in your life often are the things nearest to you.

   ( REPLY )
10. 

    Stripey
    March 20th, 2008 - 10:14

    Cipher: Well said! Again such penetrating insights. It scares me to know that we seem to be of the same mind on so many issues. I wished I had your words though.

    BTW, Crusader is technically tsundere as his nick suggests – tough exterior but a passionate man of faith under that armor of words. Just in case you see his strong defense of Noe or scorching criticism of Hiromi as belligerent.

    ( REPLY )
11. 

    Crusader
    March 20th, 2008 - 12:41

    @Cipher

    Me biased yesss…. I will NEVER accept this pathetic creature that is Jealous Hiromi as a anything less than insufferable and hateful. I would be more accepting of a Happy Hiromi that this pale reflection marred by a hateful emotion known and popularized by you as jealousy. As far as I am concerned this idiot insistence of hers to brood rather than take direct and decisive action will lead her to become Mrs. Nakagami v 1.0. The road is open the path is clear yet she still hesitates the fact that she even had to think about it means that her resolve is lacking. You say five minutes well in five minutes an man can be shot, a grenade can go off, and a 155mm howitzer can plaster a target in less time. As a soldier timing is critical a moment of hesitation can doom the fate of many. You civilians may be able to dally as long as you want and be late, however that is a luxury I cannot afford nor do I look upon lateness as merely nothing, for it implies that the tardy person does not particularly care. It matters not if it were five minutes or an hour hesitation no matter how short can be fatal. Oh but Hiromi is not a soldier she can be late eh? Well maybe its time she stopped being a purple pissing coward and do something other than brood and walk about nearly naked…Aye Hiromi would benefit immensely from the discipline and spartan existence that a military life would impart.

    Rome was not built in day, but it wasn’t built on hesitation either. Resolve was required to turn this once insignificant hovel into the Mediterranean power that humbled Carthage, saw off Hannibal, and catapult a single city state to the capital of an Empire. Augustus did not defeat his rivals by brooding in his bed, nay he took action to crush his rivals Mark Antony and Cleopatra. I would much rather have my gracious and happy Hiromi soon rather than later, not this crude wench that despite having the way cleared still cannot trust her desired lover without hesitation. you say it can be filled, well time to fill it then, why wait?

    So if Shin-chan half heartedly looking for Noe until the end does not count as abandonment then I suppose that he is being one hell of a friend by being there and talk things over. Shin has done this has he not?

    As for Hiromi and Shin-chan I see a lack of trust at worst and a distinct lack of interest in the passions of the other at best. So why hasn’t Shin-chan ever taken a keen interest in basketball seeing as it makes up a significant component of Hiromi’s life? Why has Hiromi not taken a keener interest in Shin-chan’s art books when the boy puts so much effort into it. Have they even so much as sincerely try to understand the passions of the other? Why isn’t Hiromi even with Shin-chan during his dance practice? Its an open door policy the least she could do is show up once to encourage him.

    Aye change is gradual, but if it takes an epoch or so it may well come too late… I hate this pathetic Jealous and Indecisive Hiromi. Fate has been kind to her, it has not been kind to Noe, I demand that Hiromi capitalize on her good fortune and cease her jealous brooding. It’s as if Hiromi is till the tragic one when all the tragedy has been dispelled the skies have cleared and Kanae’s campaign of hatred was brought to a grinding halt. There are no obstacles left there should be no need for Hiromi’s excuses for not acting decisively with bold maneuvers. The initiative is in her hand and remains hers to lose which she seems keen on losing given how she cannot even talk to Shin about her doubts and fears. Yes they may be all rabu rabu and at a loss for words when so close, but at some point they are going to have to talk about Noe and Jun and when that happens they might not like what they are going to hear.

    I do not object to them being together. I object to the fact that so much has been spent to get them together, that Hiromi could at the very least be grateful and improve herself. The great tragedy would not be that Noe is left out in the cold, the tragedy would be that after all the blood, tears, and anguish that the Isurugi spent would have been in vain if Hiromi remains unbowed, unhumbled, and unchanged from this hateful Jealous Hiromi that taints the screen.

    Having a sibling myself I can tell you now that there3 are somethings you cannot confide in family. Jun is there yes, but Noe is now so heart broken and forlorn that she has no desire to see Jun in such a ragged state. It is not a lack of caring, it is about dealing with it yourself. We all know what Jun will do to that lout Shin-chan, nay, any caring nii-san would to the faithless former beau of their imouto. It would not be Jibeta at the edge of that pier it would have been Shin-chan with Jun’s hand crushing his throat. Jun will forgive Noe for not coming home, Jun will never forgive Shin-chan for breaking her heart. If that is not love then what is? Shin-chan should thank Noe, for Noe has spared him a wrathful Jun-nii from running him over with his bike. You disparage Noe for not being able to see Jun’s pain, I say she is cognizant of the consequences of having Jun stirred into anger at Shin-chan.

    It is obvious that Noe loves Shin-chan Jun has realized this and sees Noe changing, and no one knows Noe like Jun nii. Perhaps you doubt the good man Jun?

    I have sworn eternal hostility to this Jealous Hiromi. I will insist until the bitter end that Jealous Hiromi be driven from the field never to return. I demand that her lair be but glass so that not even Jealous Hiromi will be able to creep from the blackened hole. I might retreat, but I will never surrender to your hateful acceptance of Jealous Hiromi. Your honeyed words are but hateful Pro-Jealous Hiromi Propaganda that seeks to delay even deny the rapid arrival of Happy Genki Hiromi. All you have to offer is excuses for Hiromi to remain in her pathetic state, I demand action on her part. There is nothing standing in her way, there should be no excuses whatsoever.

    ( REPLY )
12. 

    Dirian
    March 20th, 2008 - 14:04

    While I’m not quite so um…well militant is the best word…as Crusader I find myself agreeing with him on several points.

    Cipher you have to admit that you’re willingness to make every excuse for Hiromi, no matter actions, seems to blind you as much to her flaws as Crusader’s unswerving hatred of her might blind him to her good points, and yet Crusader has the better point methinks. Fate(the writers) have completely cleared the way for Hiromi. Every difficulty overcome, every roadblock taken away.

    Yet her only real improvement is that her feelings for Shin are not nearly as ambiguous as they were before.

    To be honest though, the one I’m more ticked at is Shin. With Hiromi’s kiss the ball is well and truly in his court. It is up to him to act. Yet he does not. He finally has all he seemed to want at one point yet he does not act?

    In some ways I should be happy really. Shin’s hesitation is proof that his feelings for Noe weren’t entirely unfounded and dishonest, and it may yet give the Noe fans hope, and yet false hope is still cruelty at it’s finest, and either way he must break one or the other’s heart in the end.

    Nevertheless, as happy as I am that this shows that a Noe ending will be based on true feelings and not some deus ex machina, the point stands that Shin must act, and act soon. Every action of his has shown his almost unwillingness to hurt his friends, save his rejection of Ai-chan, and even there he made every attempt to assure her that he would forget the incident. He has a tendency to refuse to knowingly inflict pain on those around him, and yet those very actions tend to hurt others most of all. He will have to make a hard choice and soon. I fear his choice will be a no choice, and thus he will break both of their hearts.

    I reiterate my desire to destroy Shin-chan, for the good of everyone.

    ( REPLY )
13. 

    Cipher
    March 20th, 2008 - 15:53

    So, in summary:

    You cannot forgive Hiromi for being jealous
    When proposed with the idea that she can change over time, you say that it will take too long for her to do so to have any significant effect.

    In other words, there is no way for Hiromi to redeem herself save a(nother) deus ex machina, where, in the world of Perfect Anime Happiness(tm), as soon as all obstacles have cleared, she MUST shift from gear 1 to gear 5, the plot MUST forcibly accomodate a sudden switch from Jealous Hiromi to Happy Hiromi, and all this so that we can focus the anime’s attention on Noe and Jun? Truly a sign of unhealthy bias, to forsake characters in the name of glorifying your own patron.

    Now, let’s get down to the dirty business:

    -The road is open the path is clear yet she still hesitates the fact that she even had to think about it means that her resolve is lacking.

    Clearly you think of relationships as some sort of 100-m sprint, where as long as you can get into it without obstacles, you should go into it full-force. It is only natural for a person to be wary and hesitant when trying for a relationship; it’s both their hearts at risk. In fact, the bravado and flair you demand may end up rushing people into premature relationships, and we all know how that turns out *points to Shinichiro-Noe* Indeed, if Shin had taken his time moving on from Hiromi to Noe without Jun egging him on, the Shin-Noe pairing would have survived Hiromi’s resurgence.

    -You say five minutes well in five minutes an man can be shot, a grenade can go off, and a 155mm howitzer can plaster a target in less time. As a soldier timing is critical a moment of hesitation can doom the fate of many. You civilians may be able to dally as long as you want and be late, however that is a luxury I cannot afford nor do I look upon lateness as merely nothing, for it implies that the tardy person does not particularly care.

    To pick on my ‘5 minutes’ post with this, as I knew you would, is truly befitting your militaristic views. However, your view is very much flawed in this part. Your rationalizing of 5 minutes being the difference between life and death is extensive to the battlefield, but not to a (keyword) normal civilian life. Under what Hiromi has to consider, yes 5 minutes is not long. Noe is in no danger of getting shot, plastered, or blown apart. You say that the tardy person does not care; then I ask you this, if the person did not care at all, why would he even be there in the first place? But no, you probably don’t even value that, don’t you. For as long as it does not conform to YOUR perspective, as long as it steps out of YOUR line, it deserves condemnation without mercy. *shrug* Typical.

    I won’t even begin to comment extensively on your ‘challenge’ that Hiromi take up military life save this; Almost all of the true tears’ cast could use that. Even your beloved Noe.

    Next.

    -Rome was not built in day, but it wasn

    ( REPLY )
14. 

    Cyrilix
    March 20th, 2008 - 16:41

    Cipher, thank you very much for the post. It was a good read and well-argued.

    ( REPLY )
15. 

    Crusader
    March 20th, 2008 - 20:06

    @Cipher

    I admit my patience is wearing thin you say there is change I say its more like Hiromi has only written the first paragraph in her 5 page essay on life with Shin-chan. There are only two more episodes and while you’d prefer a Hiromi fap fest I can’t bring myself to shaft everyone for Hiromi. I don’t have a lifetime to wait and see if Hiromi will avoid the fate of Kanae, but as it stands Hiromi may yet fall victim to the same error. For was it not jealousy that poisoned Kanae’s heart and compelled her to oppress Hiromi? Hiromi has had the spotlight for some time now, so I expected a bit more. This series was built on having things move a good pace, the way I see it a whole episode dedicated to Hiromi improvement while kicking everyone to the curb would indeed constitute as dragging things out if this present Hiromi is all the change that she has to show for it. All I have to go is that fact that she smiles and acting a bit more happily I was fine with that I was hoping it would continue then the jealous rut occurred. It was as if she took one step forward and then three steps back.

    Perhaps I was not clear I WANT HIROMI TO CHANGE there is nothing stopping her from changing, she has a family, now, she has already mourned her loss (after all we do not see Hiromi thinking of her parents much), she has Shin-chan, Noe is pretty much out of the way, and she has already raged enough at Jun. So why not end the pretense? Why not ask Shin-chan to go out? Why not tell him straight up how she feels about Noe? Why not seize Shin-chan and take him on a whirlwind dayto? You would have me tolerate fear as well as jealousy I can never do that so spare me you words for I will never heed calls to legitimize these most despicable of emotions. You may think trust is a petty bauble, I say it is essential for their relationship to begin and survive. If Hiromi is not the one to initiate things unequivocally then who will? Shin-chan’s path is not clear, Hiromi’s is. She is unfettered by problems now there is nothing holding her back but her own fear. If she cannot risk her heart then she has no right to love, for that would imply that her personal safety is paramount. That is the policy of cowards who can never be free unless made or kept so by the exertions of men better than themselves. Love is not just about the good times, and if she fears the bad times then why bother with love at all?

    Hiromi is technically changing but not enough to warrant any label of significant, only scant and non-existent. If there were more to come I would be more able to stomach Hiromi’s glacial pace of change, but there are only TWO left to go. As it stands Hiromi’s pace of change makes a Russian mobilization in the 1800s look like blitzkrieg. You mistake my hatred of Jealous Hiromi as a slight on the Hiromi that could and ought to be. I ask you since when have jealousy and happiness gone hand in hand? If Hiromi is to be happy if she is to rise to the challenge of being Shin-chan’s girl friend then Hiromi will need all the courage, faith, and resolve that she can muster. I doubt Shin-chan is going to fall in love with jealousy so pervasive. Shin-chan is not going to be her white knight to whisk her away, if she sits there brooding over her petty jealousy as she waits. For if she waits for Shin-chan to come then she will wait far longer than she would dare imagine.

    The thing you forget about older siblings especially male ones is that we are not ones to negotiate a problem. We see a problem we destroy it by whatever means we have. I have sat through many a class on dealing with rape victims and the reason why it is so under reported is that the victim wants emotional support, men have a tendency to simply storm off and beat the alleged offend to an inch of his life. That is the first instinct, emotional support will probably never cross our minds and the concept of talking things over with out retribution is somewhat alien to more action oriented males.

    As for being late and dallying while you pick your nose there are few employers who take lightly to employees coming in late, and applicants arriving late to interviews. I suppose being late is okay, but I think we can agree that being early and on time is by and large preferable. It not that you don’t care its that by being late you simple don’t care enough to be early to even plan your route. If you cannot plan you are incompetent and disaster may well be around the corner.

    You say it takes time to plan, in a way it does. However if you sit on your arse creating plans within plans by the time your done your prepared scenarios will cease to apply to an ever changing situation. That was the French mistake in 1940. It was the same mistake of Yamamoto in 1942. Planning is half the battle, not the whole of it Hiromi still has a lot of ground to be gained if she wants her relationship to have traction. Never forget that no plan survives contact with the enemy and that quick thinking is required to avert disaster.

    I respect Jun as man who has tried and failed, unlike Shin-chan who hardly tires, or Hiromi who can barely get out of her jealous rut. This illusion you have about measured force has no meaning and if Jun feels it necessary to beat Shin-chan then he will do it. Jun nii does not give too shits what the rest of the world thinks, the use of force does not lend it self to measured destruction. When the blood boils and the adrenaline is coursing through your veins thinking about what is and is not admissible in a fight is not going to cross your mind. Then again you may not be acquainted with the instinct to fight, if so bless you and keep turning the other cheek. You say I elevate Jun to the level of saint, I say you elevate Jealous Hiromi to the level of Goddess who’s jealousy is perfect and befitting of a woman of good conscience. I say Hiromi can be so much more than what she is and that her current state is pathetic and a pale shadow of what could be. Aye violence is wrong as you civilians would have me believe, but what you consistently forget is that violence happens and the consequences are not bridled by your vaunted reason or you pathetic appeals for restraint. Once unleashed there is but one end and it is never mild. You may have the luxury of living in a place where violence does not exist that is yours not mine. I on the other hand have lived in violence, and have studied it with gusto, and it is not right or wrong, it is needs no justification for it cares little for it, it is simply a means to an end.

    In regards to Shin-chan’s abandonment of Noe why could he not bother himself with visiting Noe’s classroom? Why could he not go visit her home? Why could he not ask Nobuse to lend a helping hand in his Noe search? Shin-chan is a member of the going home club, do you mean to tell me that there are not enough hours in the day to conduct a through search?

    I am an advocate of tactical initiative I do not care how Hiromi plans on being happy I have no fucking idea what precisely would float her boat. In short I want to be surprised by Hiromi’s creative flair and audacity. Nevertheless there is nothing standing between Hiromi and the happiness she probably wants like any sane human being. The Nakagami’s are bank rolling her new lifestyle without complaint, Kanae has drunk her big cup of STFU and is no longer oppressing her, Noe has let Shin-chan go, She has a family to call her own again, and Jun’s last Hurrah was beaten off. Now is not the time for being timid or jealous, Hiromi’s stars are aligned she can have her relationship with Shin all she needs to do is claim it plainly for all to see.

    Noe has lost family too and none of her problems were dispelled. Jun stepped up and took care of Noe. Just because shin-chan lacked the balls to defend Hiromi during those trying years does not mean that Hiromi had it any harder due to circumstances beyond control.

    This is mark that we have different values. Aye I am overly militant, but you advocating a lifestyle I find utterly contemptible and lacking. There is no right or wrong way Cipher, do not presume that my way is the wrong way when your way is not above criticism or fault. Brooding is the refuge of Hikkomori, jealousy is the refuge of the incompetent who seek to mollify their weakness rather than correct it.

    You have chosen to defend Hiromi…good just don’t expect me to simply roll over and let you justify her contemptible actions and lack of resolve. I hate jealous Hiromi for I want to see a better Hiromi by series end if she does not improve until the last few minutes in a significant manner that will be your deus ex machina. I loathe this glacial pace, do not ask me to like it for I will not.

    You’re being patronizing and condescending with all the shrugging comrade, but fine fair enough. Bear in mind there is always a method to madness, don’t be so arrogant to think otherwise and dismiss it all as fanaticism. Also look up the definition for propaganda it implies that you are being biased, it does not mean necessarily that you are lying out of your ass. The best propaganda is in fact truthful. You are being truthful in what you say, you are making good propaganda. The Soviets ribbed the yanks for having segregation while espousing freedom like hypocrites, they were right, but they said it because they had a goal. That is what propaganda is it is not always about the lies its about presenting the truth in a way to promote your defense of Hiromi. Propaganda is the presenting of information to influence the reader it is often truthful but not without an agenda. You do have an agenda: Defend Hiromi. Therefore all you write is indeed propaganda and to deny it is to say you are being impartial when you are not. After all I do not see much understanding for Jun on your part. I suspect you are taking this 10 times more seriously than you should if you have no wish to continue this propaganda war then lay off the insults and just say it.

    Lastly it costs you NOTHING to defend Hiromi, unless you are contributing money to her defense fund. You do it because you want to not because have to. Do not tell me that this thick headed fanatic has caused your mighty intellect to tire from fatigue…

    ( REPLY )
16. 

    Crusader
    March 20th, 2008 - 20:06

    @Cipher

    I admit my patience is wearing thin you say there is change I say its more like Hiromi has only written the first paragraph in her 5 page essay on life with Shin-chan. There are only two more episodes and while you’d prefer a Hiromi fap fest I can’t bring myself to shaft everyone for Hiromi. I don’t have a lifetime to wait and see if Hiromi will avoid the fate of Kanae, but as it stands Hiromi may yet fall victim to the same error. For was it not jealousy that poisoned Kanae’s heart and compelled her to oppress Hiromi? Hiromi has had the spotlight for some time now, so I expected a bit more. This series was built on having things move a good pace, the way I see it a whole episode dedicated to Hiromi improvement while kicking everyone to the curb would indeed constitute as dragging things out if this present Hiromi is all the change that she has to show for it. All I have to go is that fact that she smiles and acting a bit more happily I was fine with that I was hoping it would continue then the jealous rut occurred. It was as if she took one step forward and then three steps back.

    Perhaps I was not clear I WANT HIROMI TO CHANGE there is nothing stopping her from changing, she has a family, now, she has already mourned her loss (after all we do not see Hiromi thinking of her parents much), she has Shin-chan, Noe is pretty much out of the way, and she has already raged enough at Jun. So why not end the pretense? Why not ask Shin-chan to go out? Why not tell him straight up how she feels about Noe? Why not seize Shin-chan and take him on a whirlwind dayto? You would have me tolerate fear as well as jealousy I can never do that so spare me you words for I will never heed calls to legitimize these most despicable of emotions. You may think trust is a petty bauble, I say it is essential for their relationship to begin and survive. If Hiromi is not the one to initiate things unequivocally then who will? Shin-chan’s path is not clear, Hiromi’s is. She is unfettered by problems now there is nothing holding her back but her own fear. If she cannot risk her heart then she has no right to love, for that would imply that her personal safety is paramount. That is the policy of cowards who can never be free unless made or kept so by the exertions of men better than themselves. Love is not just about the good times, and if she fears the bad times then why bother with love at all?

    Hiromi is technically changing but not enough to warrant any label of significant, only scant and non-existent. If there were more to come I would be more able to stomach Hiromi’s glacial pace of change, but there are only TWO left to go. As it stands Hiromi’s pace of change makes a Russian mobilization in the 1800s look like blitzkrieg. You mistake my hatred of Jealous Hiromi as a slight on the Hiromi that could and ought to be. I ask you since when have jealousy and happiness gone hand in hand? If Hiromi is to be happy if she is to rise to the challenge of being Shin-chan’s girl friend then Hiromi will need all the courage, faith, and resolve that she can muster. I doubt Shin-chan is going to fall in love with jealousy so pervasive. Shin-chan is not going to be her white knight to whisk her away, if she sits there brooding over her petty jealousy as she waits. For if she waits for Shin-chan to come then she will wait far longer than she would dare imagine.

    The thing you forget about older siblings especially male ones is that we are not ones to negotiate a problem. We see a problem we destroy it by whatever means we have. I have sat through many a class on dealing with rape victims and the reason why it is so under reported is that the victim wants emotional support, men have a tendency to simply storm off and beat the alleged offend to an inch of his life. That is the first instinct, emotional support will probably never cross our minds and the concept of talking things over with out retribution is somewhat alien to more action oriented males.

    As for being late and dallying while you pick your nose there are few employers who take lightly to employees coming in late, and applicants arriving late to interviews. I suppose being late is okay, but I think we can agree that being early and on time is by and large preferable. It not that you don’t care its that by being late you simple don’t care enough to be early to even plan your route. If you cannot plan you are incompetent and disaster may well be around the corner.

    You say it takes time to plan, in a way it does. However if you sit on your arse creating plans within plans by the time your done your prepared scenarios will cease to apply to an ever changing situation. That was the French mistake in 1940. It was the same mistake of Yamamoto in 1942. Planning is half the battle, not the whole of it Hiromi still has a lot of ground to be gained if she wants her relationship to have traction. Never forget that no plan survives contact with the enemy and that quick thinking is required to avert disaster.

    I respect Jun as man who has tried and failed, unlike Shin-chan who hardly tires, or Hiromi who can barely get out of her jealous rut. This illusion you have about measured force has no meaning and if Jun feels it necessary to beat Shin-chan then he will do it. Jun nii does not give too shits what the rest of the world thinks, the use of force does not lend it self to measured destruction. When the blood boils and the adrenaline is coursing through your veins thinking about what is and is not admissible in a fight is not going to cross your mind. Then again you may not be acquainted with the instinct to fight, if so bless you and keep turning the other cheek. You say I elevate Jun to the level of saint, I say you elevate Jealous Hiromi to the level of Goddess who’s jealousy is perfect and befitting of a woman of good conscience. I say Hiromi can be so much more than what she is and that her current state is pathetic and a pale shadow of what could be. Aye violence is wrong as you civilians would have me believe, but what you consistently forget is that violence happens and the consequences are not bridled by your vaunted reason or you pathetic appeals for restraint. Once unleashed there is but one end and it is never mild. You may have the luxury of living in a place where violence does not exist that is yours not mine. I on the other hand have lived in violence, and have studied it with gusto, and it is not right or wrong, it is needs no justification for it cares little for it, it is simply a means to an end.

    In regards to Shin-chan’s abandonment of Noe why could he not bother himself with visiting Noe’s classroom? Why could he not go visit her home? Why could he not ask Nobuse to lend a helping hand in his Noe search? Shin-chan is a member of the going home club, do you mean to tell me that there are not enough hours in the day to conduct a through search?

    I am an advocate of tactical initiative I do not care how Hiromi plans on being happy I have no fucking idea what precisely would float her boat. In short I want to be surprised by Hiromi’s creative flair and audacity. Nevertheless there is nothing standing between Hiromi and the happiness she probably wants like any sane human being. The Nakagami’s are bank rolling her new lifestyle without complaint, Kanae has drunk her big cup of STFU and is no longer oppressing her, Noe has let Shin-chan go, She has a family to call her own again, and Jun’s last Hurrah was beaten off. Now is not the time for being timid or jealous, Hiromi’s stars are aligned she can have her relationship with Shin all she needs to do is claim it plainly for all to see.

    Noe has lost family too and none of her problems were dispelled. Jun stepped up and took care of Noe. Just because shin-chan lacked the balls to defend Hiromi during those trying years does not mean that Hiromi had it any harder due to circumstances beyond control.

    This is mark that we have different values. Aye I am overly militant, but you advocating a lifestyle I find utterly contemptible and lacking. There is no right or wrong way Cipher, do not presume that my way is the wrong way when your way is not above criticism or fault. Brooding is the refuge of Hikkomori, jealousy is the refuge of the incompetent who seek to mollify their weakness rather than correct it.

    You have chosen to defend Hiromi…good just don’t expect me to simply roll over and let you justify her contemptible actions and lack of resolve. I hate jealous Hiromi for I want to see a better Hiromi by series end if she does not improve until the last few minutes in a significant manner that will be your deus ex machina. I loathe this glacial pace, do not ask me to like it for I will not.

    You’re being patronizing and condescending with all the shrugging comrade, but fine fair enough. Bear in mind there is always a method to madness, don’t be so arrogant to think otherwise and dismiss it all as fanaticism. Also look up the definition for propaganda it implies that you are being biased, it does not mean necessarily that you are lying out of your ass. The best propaganda is in fact truthful. You are being truthful in what you say, you are making good propaganda. The Soviets ribbed the yanks for having segregation while espousing freedom like hypocrites, they were right, but they said it because they had a goal. That is what propaganda is it is not always about the lies its about presenting the truth in a way to promote your defense of Hiromi. Propaganda is the presenting of information to influence the reader it is often truthful but not without an agenda. You do have an agenda: Defend Hiromi. Therefore all you write is indeed propaganda and to deny it is to say you are being impartial when you are not. After all I do not see much understanding for Jun on your part. I suspect you are taking this 10 times more seriously than you should if you have no wish to continue this propaganda war then lay off the insults and just say it.

    Lastly it costs you NOTHING to defend Hiromi, unless you are contributing money to her defense fund. You do it because you want to not because have to. Do not tell me that this thick headed fanatic has caused your mighty intellect to tire from fatigue…

    ( REPLY )
17. 

    Dirian
    March 20th, 2008 - 22:33

    Oi Cipher, no need to go all condescending on us. I expect Crusader to be overly militant but he has always been rather civil in his posts. Passionate and to the point yes, but never condescending.

    Anyway, my main problem with your justifying Hiromi is that it comes off as exactly that. A justification. As in “well yes Hiromi IS being, and certainly HAS been, a jealous mean spirited bitch of a girl in the past, but hey there’s reasons for it, and here they are, so really that makes it perfectly ok”.

    Now, maybe I am misinterpreting what you mean, but justification was your word, not mine, and regardless that is how many of your posts have come across, both in this discussion, and in others. I didn’t feel the need to cite them, and still don’t, but if you insist I can always do so.

    Either way, given how your posts have come across, yes I take exception to them, and even more exception to the idea that I simply don’t understand. I perfectly understand WHY Hiromi has done the things she has done. I KNOW why she acts jealous, I know why she lied to Shin for so long, tried to lie to herself for so long, and hesitates to even phone Shin when Noe goes missing(and to be fair to Crusader, in that situation when literally ANYTHING could have happened to her, kidnapping, accident, whatever, 5 minutes really could mean the difference between life or death. Now I don’t expect Hiromi to be aware of that, or even think about it, but to shrug it off like it might not really have been important is foolish of you).

    The thing is, knowing why she acts the way she does, even being sympathetic toward her because I know why she acts the way she does, does NOT mean that I feel her actions are then justified, and everything’s ok. I know why she has acted how she has and I still find her actions to be unjustifiable. Her jealousy has a reason behind it yes, but it’s still a cancer which left unchecked will make any relationship with Shin, assuming that is the direction we’re going, pure poison. Like Crusader, I want Hiromi to change for the better, and I’m even willing to give her time for her to change for the better, but if the change is never more than superficial, and the cancer still festers beneath the surface, then all the time is not likely to help.

    And indeed knowing why is precisely why it seems odd that now that a LOT of those reasons are no longer pertinent she and Shin haven’t gotten on with it. She doesn’t think they’re siblings anymore, she’s not being oppressed by a horrible adoptive mother, she’s not even lying to herself(or Shin) about her feelings for him. Literally all the roadblocks are gone. I’m not asking them to get married right the hell now, and rome wasn’t built in a day or a week or a month, but rome wasn’t built by laying a stone and then not going any further than that either.

    And of course that really brings us back to Shin. He can’t tell himself that she doesn’t like him. He KNOWS she likes him. What’s the holdup? He KNOWS he’s not going to be rejected if he confesses to her, Noe has pretty much given her blessing on the whole affair “you aren’t meant to fly here”, what’s HIS holdup? Noe obviously, but if he has no feelings for her then he does her no favors by stringing her along. Likewise if his feelings for Hiromi have become less than his feelings for Noe, then he does her no favors by not being as honest with her as he was with Ai-chan.

    You will say that he has feelings for them both, and is confused and conflicted, unsure what he wants, and cursed with the desire to hurt noone, yet knowing he’ll hurt someone in the end. If you won’t say it I certainly will. Certainly that’s realistic. I understand that. That kind of thing happens. But all of us know(and if you don’t know, allow me to educate you) that this indecisiveness is the absolute WORST thing he can do. Anyone who has been through that kind of dilemna will tell you that the best thing you can do is make your mind up and break with the girl you haven’t chosen as quickly as possible. Will she be hurt? Yes, but less hurt in the end than if you had strung her along for forever before doing the same damn thing. Sometimes the best way to take off a band-aid is to just rip it off at once.

    Ultimately it is his intent to be indecisive that makes me want to destroy him. Would both girls be hurt in such a situation? Yes, but they could both then grieve, get over it, move on, and find happiness elsewhere. As it is, AS I SEE THINGS RIGHT NOW, with Shin not definitely leaning to one or the other(that would at least be acceptable, if disappointing to those in the camp of the loser), but instead doing his damndest to make BOTH girls think he really loves the other, and being unable to either make a full break with Noe and run to Hiromi whose feelings regarding him are FINALLY unambiguous, or flatly tell Hiromi that he’s dating Noe, has confessed to her, and intends to keep dating her, it would be better if he was removed from the picture entirely. As a Noe fan I know I would not like to see her heart broken, put back together, and broken all over again. Knowing you for a Hiromi fan, I can’t believe that, having finally seen your heroine improve for the better, overcome her obstacles and admit to herself and her beloved her true feelings(correct me if I’m wrong that you weren’t ecstatic to see these changes for the better. Hell I was happy for Hiromi to be improving instead of continually stewing in her pot of lies and jealousy), that having had her improve so much that she should now have Shin languish in indecision.

    Of course now I hit upon an inner conflict.

    On the one hand, should Shin have just run straight into Hiromi’s arms, with no thought to Noe after leading her on so, I would have condemned him as the second coming of Makoto sans the sleeping with everything under the sun.

    On the other the alternative, knowing his long standing feelings for Hiromi, is just this indecision we see playing out.

    So I’m both glad that his relationship with Noe wasn’t totally based on feelings that didn’t really exist, but even so I find his indecision to be despicable(but at least he’s not Makoto).

    And yet on the flip side of the coin, having no love for Hiromi’s lies and ambiguity in the past, I can’t see a better justice than having to suffer the SAME ambiguity and uncertainty that she put Shin through now that she has finally made her feelings clear.

    But no, Hiromi has lied yes, but she has suffered in her own way for it, and regardless whether some would think she has suffered enough the cancer that festered in the past, continues to fester even now, will not be helped or healed by Shin’s indecisiveness. No matter who he chooses, you cannot deny that Hiromi would be better in the end if he would just make his mind up already, and it’s not too much to ask him to make that in the time he has had to make this decision. It’s only a hard decision if he wants to have his Noe and eat Hiromi too(which I admit….I wouldn’t mind either *cough*).

    At the end of the day, I still support Noe, and I don’t fault those who for whatever reason support Hiromi(though that shouldn’t make them decide to justify all her past actions as if they were all ok because there were reasons for them), but no matter who you support you can’t tell me that Shin’s indecisiveness is a good thing, or that he hasn’t had the time to make a damn decision, and make that decision clear to all those involved.

    ( REPLY )
18. 

    Cipher
    March 21st, 2008 - 05:03

    -You

    ( REPLY )
19. 

    Cipher
    March 21st, 2008 - 12:48

    @Dirian

    The whole point with my justifications is this; it is to show the other side of the picture, whether you as the reader choose to think it is acceptable is a question of your own virtues and beliefs. It is very much unfair, the way you and Crusader have been condemning Hiromi without at least highlighting that there is another way to look at her shortcomings and give other people a chance to perceive her for the better, which is where I have to come in. Had any of you shown such reasoning in your posts, I would not have minded so much if you still decide to condemn Hiromi because it is, after all, the varying perceptions of anime viewers.

    Right. 5 minutes. Whenever someone goes missing, is the first thing you think of their demise? Yes I know the possibilities are there, and it is foolish to overlook them, but let’s get this straight; under first impact of the news, a person tends to start from a normal considerable situation given the circumstances, and from then on, it escalates further into more morbid territory. Given 5 minutes of her consideration, and the fact that she has no real obligation to worry for Noe, I doubt any expectation of a situation where 5 minutes makes the difference between life and death is realistic.

    I do not see how you are sympathetic towards her, but for sake of agreement I’ll take your word for it. You are assuming her jealousy is left unchecked; quite the contrary, as I have already shown by pointing out the call scene, and relating it to her past state in the Nakagami household. You blame her still for bearing any part of jealousy, I do not have such a severe view on it because her jealousy is diminishing. You say you are willing to give her time, yet you show more care for your doubts and even go so far as to say that it may not even help. Were you truly sympathetic to her and willing to give her time, you would at least have a neutral or even more positive outlook on the time she needs to set up her relationship with Shin. You expect her to bury her jealousy as soon as she has started her life outside of the Nakagami household, and while she may very well come to do so, that in itself is not an instantaneous process. Just because the external barriers have been removed doesn’t mean the internal insecurities between the two of them have been resolved. You saying that they are ‘laying a stone and not going anywhere further’ is limited thinking; it has only been 1 episode since Hiromi has moved out of the house. There are 2 more eps left and given the way true tears episodes have been, 2 episodes may well be enough to complete that Rome. If you doubt, I cannot help you believe, but in that case don’t say that you are willing to give them time when you don’t even expect anything to come out of it in the first place.

    Putting aside your attempt at either sarcasm or genuine education, yes, indecisiveness is ONE of the worst qualities Shin has in him. Yes, given the benefit of foresight, we all can say that he is making a severe mistake by not making his choice between Noe and Hiromi clear. However, all I ever tried to say about Shin in my last reply was just to show WHY he is hesitating, because based on this:

    “To be honest though, the one I

    ( REPLY )
20. 

    Crusader
    March 21st, 2008 - 13:19

    @ Cipher

    Wow

    ( REPLY )
21. 

    Dirian
    March 21st, 2008 - 13:43

    My main issue with your condescending is that while Crusader has blasted characters will full vigor(to put it mildly) and in doing so has perhaps utterly rejected your interpretation, he has never really blasted you yourself for holding those opinions. Of course that’s perhaps my own interpretation of his actions, and maybe I’m being too forgiving of him, and certainly I may be skimming over my own attitude, but I’ve never wanted to attack you personally for your views, and there is a subtle difference there. Disagree with our opinions all you want. Don’t try to assume that just because we disagree with you that obviously we just can’t see what you see.

    -Again I reiterate; I am NOT telling anyone that whatever justifications I give a character automatically makes that character

    ( REPLY )
22. 

    Dirian
    March 21st, 2008 - 23:33

    Well, I’ve had time to really think about my posistion, I have mulled over it some, and if you’re still bothering to read Cipher, I ask you to consider the following.

    First, as regards Hiromi: I will admit that my views regarding her past actions no doubt color my continued view of her, and as I admitted in my last post she certainly is changing, and hopefully for the better, and given the amount of episodes left we shouldn’t expect her to change overnight and especially not when she has moved all in and Shin has yet to really call.

    This does not mean I change my views of her past actions. And I want to emphasize action, because like Crusader I am a person who is primarily concerned first and foremost with the actions a character takes.

    This is not to say that the motivation behind them is not important. After all my concern when Shin confessed to Noe, one noted several times since by Stripey, was that he was entering into a relationship either as a rebound from the knowledge that Hiromi was forever out of his reach, combined with the possiblity that he MIGHT have feelings for Noe. Here I was concerned about his motivations, but only after the action itself had taken place.

    With Hiromi though, I knew her motivations and the reasons for why she acted why she did, but it was her actions I took issue with, because afterall she is responsible for her actions if for nothing else. She perhaps cannot help feeling upset thinking the man she loves is her brother and beyond her reach, and thus perhaps cannot help feeling jealous or even hurt when he starts dating someone else, but she can control how she acts in response to those situations, and her actions however well they may be explained were unjustifiable in the sense I usually give the word.

    Likewise, I was, and still am, very much an Ai-chan fanboy, and this was primarily because she was the first one to truly come to terms with her own feelings, to be perfectly honest with those feelings, and to ACT on those feelings honestly. Those actions were hard for her no doubt, and she had to go all in, and ultimately she was rejected. But, she still acted honestly in the end(not that she always WAS honest with herself) and I can respect someone who acts honestly in matters of the heart and is rejected far more than someone who will sabotage all possibility of a relationship out of fear, then react out of petty jealousy and possessiveness when the sabotage works. Needless to say I am very happy for Ai-chan that she is perhaps on her way to discovering happiness(as Crusader is happy that such a good guy as Nobuse is on his way to getting his sweater).

    But now we are at the present. At present, all the huge roadblocks that were stopping Hiromi from being forthwright with Shin have been removed(and been removed since episode 9 I remind you). How has she acted? She has BEEN honest with Shin about her feelings. She has let him know, in terms that even he cannot ignore or misinterpret. This is, by all accounts a Good Thing. A positive action. A step in the right direction. Hooray for Hiromi!(and that is said with zero sarcasm btw).

    But of course that brings us to Shin.

    I present now my indictment of Shin-chan:

    Shin-chan’s current dilemna is that he must now, unequivocally, choose either Noe, or Hiromi, or neither. I indict him for being indecisive and spineless in this situation, and I find that normal considerations given to Harem male leads do not obtain:

    1) Obliviousness: Shin-chan certainly has shown himself to be oblivious to other’s feelings in the past. Specifically Hiromi’s feelings. Though of course she did say she really liked Jun, the fact is that in the walk to the beach, and in his visit to her room he was missing some pretty big signals. Nevertheless, being obliviousness is not an excuse here because he knows how both girls feel about him. They have let him know in no uncertain terms.

    2) Spinelessness: I submit that the typical harem-lead response of not knowing how to respond to a girl who has confessed due to spinelessness does not obtain. Shin was able to completely and utterly reject Ai-chan when she confessed, and in no uncertain terms. That he has not done so with Hiromi or Noe suggests that this is because he DOES hold feelings for them both, and is unsure how to act. Understandable yes, but potentially heartbreaking to BOTH girls should he fail to act soon.

    As I have said, with her kiss, Hiromi essentially moved all in. The ball is truly in Shin’s court, and so far he does not seem to have responded either positively or negatively. In that light, while I still do not think that her hesitation is something that should just be shrugged off as if it doesn’t matter, she still ACTED in the correct manner(she did call Shin afterall), and if she is jealous and uncertain, well for once I cannot blame her. Such emotions will consume her if she cannot eventually control them, but currently how else should we expect her to act given Shin’s nonresponse. She thought or suspected he felt for her as she did for him, she has let him know her feelings and intentions in a way even he cannot pretend not to understand, and he has not replied either with acceptance or rejection. Her tragedy is apparently not to end yet.

    In this view, while I maintain that her darker side could consumer her in the end, yet until Shin responds either in the positive or the negative her full redemption must necessarily be stalled. If she is ultimately rejected, then she will have to well and truly let go. If she is accepted she will have to learn to trust Shin. Yet for now she can neither let go or learn to trust because there is nothing to let go of, nothing to trust. She has bet her entire stack, laid all of her cards on the table, and rather than fold or call Shin does nothing.

    Do you see Cipher why I have come to indict Shin so? I understand why he acts how he does. His feelings are ambiguous. He has feelings for both girls. Yet his actions(or in this case his nonaction) are hurting both of them. Whatever reason he may have, the results are cruel no matter which girl you prefer. Noe’s heart is broken and he threatens to break it again. Hiromi, who finally is on the path to redemption finds that redemption halted by the one man who can lead to it’s completion. It is not even a matter of him being the man so he should be the one to act. He is the only one who CAN act. Both girls have already acted. They have made their respective moves. It is up to HIM to take his turn, and the longer he delays the worse he’ll hurt them both.

    Finally, I have something to say about how you considered Noe’s actions to be akin to those who adopt a pet out rather than those of a true lover.

    I present to you that such altruistic love is perhaps Eros at it’s best. Such love wishes for the good and happiness of the beloved, even if that happiness is not to be found with the lover, and is very much the sign of a very deep love.

    Examples of such a thing have been found several times throughout this very show:

    1) When Shin, even jokingly, sets up Jun and Hiromi because he loves Hiromi, has been lead to believe that She likes Jun, and wishes for her happiness. Even if he didn’t really mean to enter into the ill-advised contract, he has certainly done what he can to encourage the relationship, risking his first ever visit to Hiromi’s room to let her know the good news that Jun thinks highly of her(hyperbole I know bear with me). Shin himself has shown he can be altruistic, and if those weren’t the feelings of the true lover than those very feelings which were when he was least unsure about whom he liked were those of someone who is not made to be Hiromi’s lover but her friend.

    2) Nobuse selflessly letting go of Ai-chan when he realizes that he is not the one she likes. He lets her go, to find her fate where she may. Unselfishly, and without either jealousy or spite, and when she ultimately fails he does act smug or self righteous but welcomes her back with open arms.

    I submit that Noe’s own altruism is such as theirs. She loves Shin, had believed that he loved her, and when she realizes(or thinks she realizes) that it is not her but Hiromi, who occupies his heart she is willing to let him go, break ties with him completely, and let him go after her. Of course this is very painful to her. How could it not be. You Cipher, who go to such lengths to understand and explain Hiromi’s actions, cannot be oblivious to how much it must hurt Noe to let him go that way. That you do not see their other interactions as those of lovers, but as muse and artist, is of course your interpretation, but I see it as both. The muse loves the artist, loves him deeply, and wants him to find happiness, even if it is not with her. If he has not loved her in quite the same way, yet his very hesitation to jump headlong into Hiromi’s waiting arms shows that there is more there than previously thought(or at least more than I previously thought).

    With that I end my post, and hope Cipher that you have not grown so weary of my novels that you have stopped reading altogether, for I would know your thoughts on this.

    ( REPLY )
23. 

    Cipher
    March 22nd, 2008 - 14:46

    Last response, seeing true tears 12 has already aired in Japan anyway

    @Crusader

    Regarding violence and jealousy: Alright, so you value honesty as much to the point that you are fine with violence as it is an honest way of expression. I value it less because honesty is not always the best policy, violence even less so of a justification of honesty. You say death is the end all of man’s problems, but for who does it solve the problem for? The dead will not have life remaining to enjoy the freedom from problem, and there are not enough situations where the living can justify the killing of a kin just for the resolution of a problem. Your belief would kill all mankind to end their problems, and yet there would be no man left to enjoy the freedom from the problems, so what point is there in such a resolution? No, I do not understand nor accept your point. But it is yours to keep and believe in, so do as you wish; I could care less, as I have said.

    Regarding propaganda: I stand corrected, if it wasn’t clear earlier from my last post seeing how I did not even comment about it. Yes, since you define propaganda as so, I am spreading propaganda. However I will not back down from the fact that this ‘propaganda’ is not a sign of bias, let alone a blind bias. Yes, I write for the masses, if you will. I certainly don’t write in hope of changing you, because it is a futile effort in itself. A debate is not about two teams trying to change each other, it’s about two teams trying to influence the members of the floor. So yes, I am writing what you call propaganda. And I am writing it for the benefit of people who would listen, who would value a different opinion. Your opinion is that of your own as well, but don’t act as if it is the one and only opinion around and any other opinion that even slightly conflicts with yours must be ground into dust. Give and take, Crusader. Give and take. If you start on other people by calling them and their posts ‘hateful’, don’t expect them to treat you other than that, ‘hateful’.

    Regarding respect: Just because there is one way to show disrespect does not mean that it is the only way. While you may not have acted as you have said, in comparison to what I would like to call a neutral first post on my part, you come in, laced with negative remarks and hateful sentiments, and proceed to degrade both Hiromi and any opinion I have about her. Seeing as people even bother to make their posts non-inflammatory, your brash style of commentary comes off as disrespect for my efforts at trying for a neutral discussion. Hence why I reacted with a ‘condescending’ attitude. If I am not going to be shown equal respect in neutrality, I don’t see why I even have to bring up the issue of your negative comments with you. Instead, I would let actions speak for themselves, as you are so fond of saying, and react accordingly. In fact, for me to be so angered over this disrespect at least shows I think of you as a worthy person to debate with; had you done what you said you could have done, I wouldn’t even bother with commenting on it because it shows how you would be not up to par with the current levels of discussion. The physical gestures would then fall under this topic, because as much as you outright reject some of my statements and refuse to even discuss them, I can only treat some of your points with similar cynicism. It is to you what your artfully but yet ugly usage of flamboyant negative adjectives and statements is to me.

    Regarding ‘time’: We know for a fact that Hiromi has had all her external problems removed and that now the ball is in her (and Shin’s) hands whether to advance or not. However, we also know for a fact that she is still unable to let go of her jealousy and her insecurity about Shin. You say she is more jealous given the picture book and Shin’s move to save Noe, but I do not see it as so because if you gave her the same situation when she was under Kanae’s oppression, she would not even react to the news at worst, at best a much longer delay. And she would be far more unreasonable and doubting of Shin to even let him run off after Noe. That is why I see the call scene as an improvement, a diminishing of her jealousy than an increase. Old habits die hard, and that why ‘time’ is needed. My issue with your view is that you expect her to just drop her habit of jealousy and fear, trust Shin and let him decide for himself. While that may eventually be the correct course of action, she has barely started her interaction with Shin as anything more than what they were before ep9. In terms of anime time, that would be two weeks at best, I think, giving one week of suspension and one week after that. Is two weeks enough to change a habit, to build such an amount of trust? Maybe to you yes, but to me no. Correct, what I expect of the Shin-Hiromi relationship requires more than 30 minutes of screen time, but it does not mean 30 minutes of screen time on them alone. Their relationship is also influenced by Jun and Noe, so any particular development on those two would also determine inadvertently the course Shin and Hiromi can take. Hence why I do not see the issue of ’shafting’; all four of them are interdependent on each other to advance or regress, the same for any relationship between the four.

    Regarding ‘5 minutes’: We, or rather you, are approaching this from the viewer’s angle, from seeing a complete situation rather than how the characters see it. Yes, should anything ever happen to Noe, Shin, Jun and Hiromi would find it hard to excuse themselves of any blame. However, considering how she saw Shin’s picture book, has had to fend for her own against Jun,, does not know that Noe decided to give up on Shin, and does not have any obligation to worry for Noe, from Hiromi’s own perspective within those 5 minutes, the possible outcomes of Noe’s disappearance bear less weight than her sending Shin to look for a rival in love. Besides, when you stop and think of it, perhaps she does realize the danger that Noe is in, and hence that may have pushed her from her hesitance to trust Shin and let him find Noe. Or it could very well be the other way round, with her finally deciding to trust in Shin once seeing how Noe’s precarious position is reliant on Shin for its’ resolution. You may very well disagree with such a painting of Hiromi as a saint, but since the whole scene is subjective, you cannot deny it as being impossible. Anyway yes, I do not disagree with your view that Hiromi’s wait may indeed cause all the difference in finding Noe, but again, I am presenting another side of the story, from her own very eyes rather than ours. I may or may not agree with her actions, but at least I understand them instead of thinking the action to be irrational and illogical, leading to the mindless hate that some people (no, not you, given your essays and points) sling her way.

    Regarding ‘fear and jealousy’: My point in citing my examples was to show that there is a positive aspect to jealousy, and that the actions from that state of jealousy determine whether it is positive or otherwise. I am not foolish enough to deny your examples; in fact I will admit that those examples are more frequent than my own. However, as long as there is the possibility of a positive reaction from jealousy, I am willing to give Hiromi the benefit of the doubt while she herself works on reducing her jealousy. Why reduce it if I think it can produce positive actions? Because I do not deny that it has a higher probability of being negative than positive. It is the same as anger, it is at times necessary and unavoidable, but other times, it is best for it to be avoided. As for fear and doubt, it is a natural part of the beginning of a relationship, and if they cannot overcome it at the beginning than they are definitely not ready for the road ahead. In that sense, I do not hate the fear that she carries now, because it is a natural response to the challenges posed by beginning a relationship and it is in overcoming that fear that she will prove herself worthy of being in a stable relationship. I would rather it be there for her to overcome it than for it to not be there now and instead only show up later in the relationship to complicate a relationship that has already been committed to.

    Regarding ‘change’: Does Hiromi have to beat out Noe, now that Noe has actually withdrawn herself from Shin? Yes, Shin is still hung up over her, but as long as there is only one person shooting for a relationship with Shin, that one person has time at her disposal to help Shin naturally move on. Yes you are right, she needs a dramatic change to beat out Noe if both of them were to compete for his heart, and that is why we have the deus ex machina of Kanae’s sudden change of heart and personality. At that point of time, Noe and Shinichiro were very much interested in each other, and Hiromi was being held back by the various circumstances around her. Now, however, Noe has withdrawn herself from Shin, Hiromi’s external obstacles have been cleared (save for Jun probably), and she has already started her change for the better, so I do not see the need for another deus ex machina in the name of speed. And well, if you choose to think so lowly of Hiromi as to say that she will still remain only slightly less jealous and just as doubtful after all the change she may go through, I cannot change that view, but know that it is not the only legitimate point of view, let alone the only point of view.

    Regarding Noe: I think you have misunderstood my previous point about doubting Noe’s love for Shin. Again, as I am repeating for sake of clarity, just because I point out or highlight a different take on an issue doesn’t mean that I necessarily subscribe to that view. I am not as ignorant as to ignore the interactions between Shin and Noe during the short period of their relationship, if anything I merely pointed out the possible reinterpretation of Noe’s love because you yourself doubted Hiromi’s love for Shin in the first place. I doubt neither of their feelings for Shin, but if people insist on saying that Hiromi does not love Shin, or that her love is dubious, then I have to point out that the same subjective cynical view can be applied to Noe.

    Regarding “price of defending Hiromi”, I would not have you judge my efforts on defending Hiromi when you are not in my position. Why? Because if you calculate costs based on money alone, then yes, there is no price to defend Hiromi. But if I factor in the time I am using to mull things over, rewatch episodes and scenes to find different interpretations and viewpoints, and just plain sorting out my own thoughts and reasonings to make all of that into a coherent opinion, then there is a lot more cost involved than you might think. Whether my defense for Hiromi is unconditional or not depends on how you interpret the following statement: I will defend Hiromi as long as I do not neglect my own well-being in reality. If that condition itself goes against your definition of ‘unconditional’ then yes, I am conditional in her defense because she, as much as I would like her to be, is not my life partner. She is not even existent in reality. I have to take care of my own self before I can take care of her. So, after all this, if you still offer your apology to me, then it needs not to be said; as a fellow anime enthusiast I will accept it. If you feel that, after reaffirming what I meant about my defense of Hiromi, that I am not deserving of the apology, then I will not hold it against you if you take it back.

    In general: Crusader, my bone of contention with you is that you have shown in your posts very little tolerance, let alone willingness to understand, a viewpoint other than yours. I have never forced on you the acceptance of a character and his/her actions, rather I have tried to point out at length the different views that each character can have. If you do not like it then that is your opinion and right to disagree, but to act as if my own opinion bears no weight and cannot be possibly right is, to put it lightly, very linear. Another problem I have with you is how you mistake me for being a blind fanboy and assuming I am dismissing Hiromi’s faults; I have never once in this course of discussion said that Hiromi has never been jealous or possessive, which I assume are the main charges you bring against her. Again, I am highlighting another take on her jealousy and possessiveness for people to read and see for themselves whether it resonates with what they feel. On the other hand, judging by past posts and your own remarks at THAT, you seem to be unable to tolerate the fact that Jun may even be possibly implicit in causing Noe’s heartbreak. Even against Jun, I do not deny his care for his sister, but for him to prioritize the proxy love setup over Noe’s happiness shows how he has lost his focus, and for that I cannot agree with your view of him as a saintly brother to Noe.

    I do not doubt your qualities as a fellow anime enthusiast and intellectual, if only because you have managed to react to to my posts with enough passion and vigor for your own cause. I just do not like how you have to initially approach anyone who may disagree with your views with your negative sentiments. Quote the soldier’s lifestyle if you must, but I think that you are a human before a soldier, and as a human, you should give credit to people’s opinion when it is due. I do not say this in the hope of changing your post style, but at the very least I hope you will understand why some people will take to your initial responses badly. I hope that on another anime, we may see eye to eye, but for now, it is not this anime.

    @Dirian

    Regarding ‘condescending’: Crusader has ‘blasted’ me, refer to his opinions of a lifestyle I deem acceptable as well as his earlier post about ‘my hateful acceptance’ of Hiromi. I do not fault you if you find it laughable that I take issue with such words, but I am not one to take words lightly to the point that I will hurl abuse without thinking of the possible repercussions. That he was annoyed/irritated/angry about my response shows how he did not anticipate me to take such words seriously.

    Regarding ‘interpretation’: It’s good that you at least know now what I really mean behind all my justifications, but this:

    -and I took, and still do take, issue with any opinion that wants to paint her in the light of some poor misunderstood tragic heroine.

    comes off again as being unable to accept a different take on Hiromi. If you cannot give her your acceptance, then at the very least don’t take issues with people who may very well want to do so, especially if they aren’t picking a fight with you in the first place. Is it so improbable that Hiromi can be cast as a girl whose plights and problems have twisted her so to the point that she has maimed herself with jealousy and fear, and yet still seeks to continue living and fighting for a love which may very well slip through her fingers? You have your interpretations of her plight, so do I. Her tale may seem more disgusting than tragic to you, it is the reverse to me. I have not gone so far as to say that your views on her are wrong, wrong and wrong, so I don’t see why you cannot do the same for people who “want to paint her in the light of some poor misunderstood tragic heroine”. Criticizing is easier than being tolerant and resolving to understand each other’s posts, but more often than not, criticisms only generate more criticisms and it gets to the point where everything degenerates into mud-slinging and name-calling. I for one do not want to sour my true tears viewing as such, hence why I would put the extra effort in trying to convey a neutral comment (first post), but if push comes to shove I will not hesitate to defend my points, as you have seen.

    But, as you say, the subject has been beaten to death, so no point in flogging a dead horse.

    Regarding ‘hesitation’: Again, we are talking about our point of view, the third person perspective. My defense is very simple: If you are talking about Hiromi’s perspective, I have already elaborated why I can understand her not prioritizing Noe’s safety. If it is my own view as a viewer that you find lacking, then do not worry, for I did consider the fact that yes, Noe might be in a precarious situation, but given the storyboard direction that true tears had taken, I did not focus so much on it because a Noe death scene would not only upset the Noe masses, it would eliminate a large part of the tranquil beauty of the series, something I suspect only School Days was ever capable of doing, and something which I would think the PA Works staff are trying to avoid.

    Regarding ‘Hiromi’: You prioritize actions, which is one way of looking at her. I prioritize the cause and effects of the actions, which is another. After all, for me, an effect cannot exist without a cause, so if I would find the cause, I would then understand the effect, and seeing as the action itself becomes a cause for another action, it would lead to understanding the next action taken, and so on and so forth. You have your reasons why you want to prioritize actions, and fine, I can live with that. An example to show our differences in this area is this: you concern yourself with Shin’s reason behind confessing to Noe after he did the actual confession; I prioritized Jun’s run-in with Shin from dance practice, and his self-hesitation about his feelings for Hiromi and Noe, and from there on I tried to understand if he would truly give himself any chance to develop any feelings for Noe, given how he was still in the aftermath of Hiromi’s revelations. That was then the basis for my perception of Shin-Noe; he was true to himself and to Noe at that point of time that he did like her, but he was not ready to replace Hiromi with Noe. Hence why, upon the resurgence of Hiromi, Noe realized Shin’s residual feelings and respectfully decided to leave Shin in Hiromi’s hands. It goes further on from there, but you get the rough picture. About her lack of honesty, again I will say that you and I stand on different sides of the field. I can appreciate honesty in a relationship for it is a basis for trust, but I find that jealousy and fear is what will give that honesty a chance to show itself, and for that I deem jealousy and fear an integral part of relationships. I do not mean to say that they are good, just that they are not downright bad and will always bring out the worst in people. Take Ai-chan for example; had she not feared for losing Shin to Noe or Hiromi so much, I daresay she would never have planted the surprise kiss which would endear you to her honesty. I do have issues with her display of honesty at that, but for the sake of being on-topic I will not bring it up here. Hiromi has shown the signs of fear and jealousy, it is up to her to overcome those by being honest with herself and hence build her trust in Shin. That she has reacted badly to it before only shows how she is very much human and prone to mistakes, and that is one of her endearing traits to me.

    Regarding ‘Shin’: For reference, my posts from above:

    -Regarding Shin himself, I have never said I would rather Hiromi

    ( REPLY )
24. 

    Crusader
    March 22nd, 2008 - 15:57

    @Cipher

    The point about death solving all problems is that it short simple and to the point and in the grand scheme of things costs the least amount of resources both in time and capital. Sure the dead won’t be able to enjoy things, but they were the problem they obviously have failed to correct said problem so it was solved for them in the most final sense. I don’t care who is left to enjoy this new found release from said problem all I know is that humans are strange creatures not other being on earth does things we do to one another. We pretend that all men are good that evil is somehow an oddity. Given how there are so many problems I do believe that all men are not good, more over they remain problem generators. It is a simple matter to use death to halt the stream of problems, to pull the plug if you will. To use death as a solution is to accept that the problem is the biggest concern not the preciousness of life or what that person might contribute in the long run. I never said it was right, but it remains a simply solution to a myriad of problems. Indeed if man no longer existed there would be no war, no poverty, not racial tension, and no ethnic hatred. Given that these problems have not abated I think you will agree that a sufficient solution has not been found, and that death is the only known one, even if the cost is too awful to contemplate. You seem to be hung up on justifying things, beear in mind there is no requirement for justification when a person takes action, have you not heard of doing things for the lulz?

    Ah well I will wait to see if your Hiromi has indeed improved and taken one more step to discard her fear and hatred as 12 has aired. Keep in mind comrade that fortune favors the bold. In the eps to come the Goddess of Victory will bestow her laurels only on those who are prepared to act with daring. Noe has proved her courage and daring by allowing her heart to break. Just because Noe has let Shin-chan go does not prevent Shin-chan to go back to Noe.

    ( REPLY )
25. 

    Dirian
    March 22nd, 2008 - 22:20

    Well put Cipher in all regards, and I will reply to you in the hopes that you find time to read it, or if not that in your vein of writing for the masses, that I might offer one last response to your points. Regardless I similarly wish you an enjoyment of the finale of this series, whenever you get to view it, and more than that that your real life issues conclude with a positive resolution. I do not know what they are, but I will remember them in my prayers. And now, to my post:

    -Is it so improbable that Hiromi can be cast as a girl whose plights and problems have twisted her so to the point that she has maimed herself with jealousy and fear, and yet still seeks to continue living and fighting for a love which may very well slip through her fingers?

    My main point with taking issue with those who would paint her as a tragic misunderstood heroine too those of us who do not support her hinges on the word “misunderstood”. As I stated I do find her situation utterly tragic. To love someone whom you have thought to be forever beyond your reach, for reasons which you have no control over, and yet still unable to let go of them? What could be more tragic? I too have known similar situations, and I can sympathize. But as you yourself say she has maimed herself. This makes her situation yet more tragic, but the tragedy does not absolve her of her own part in causing the tragedy. She is the one who allows her jealousy, her bitterness, her possessiveness, and her fear run out of control and hurt her as bad or worse than her unrequited love, of its own accord, ever could have done. There are many ways to react in such a situation, and while you hesitate to classify any as either right or wrong, you well know that I am under no such inhibition. If I am imposing my own values on her, well I only have my own values to work from at the end of the day. You would view letting him go to show her love as something that is no longer romance, but more on that later.

    I will say now, that I have viewed this as more a discourse between us, and not so much the “masses”. If the masses want to partake in this discussion they are welcome to do so, but I was primarily talking to and with you, and so I perhaps took issue where I shouldn’t have with your constant explanations of things I felt I was already perfectly aware of. I knew her reasons for her actions, I was not unaware of her hardships. But after taking all that into account I still found her actions, particularly her dishonesty, and later her pettiness, to be reprehensible. Not because I didn’t understand them but because I still found the reasons insufficient to justify her actions. Explain them certainly, but not justify in the sense of making right. Her actions were inexcusable, though not, I admit, unforgivable.

    But then I do not make it a point of making my knowledge of situations explicit when I discuss the situations because I focus more on the action. This is perhaps my own particular failing. You obviously understood Hiromi’s reasoning so why expound on those reasons? My posts are long enough as is. But then, you were not writing to me but to others who might senselessly hate Hiromi without considering her situation, or for those who might understand her situation and excuse her actions, so I owe you an apology as well.

    -Regarding

    ( REPLY )

Leave a comment